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L2 novel vs translation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| amethyst32 Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5435 days ago 118 posts - 198 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, French | Message 9 of 25 31 December 2011 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Yes, but my vote for a translation was based on it being a first novel. Perhaps I should add that I prefer translations as a beginner, moving onto original native books once I'm reading with less effort. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6489 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 10 of 25 31 December 2011 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
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If translations generally are easier to read than original works, then the translators are doing a poor job. But it is hard to prove.
I mostly read non fiction, and many of the science magazines you can find in kiosks have editions in different languages, and I have sometimes come across the same story in different languages. Then the name of the author may or may not give a hint of which one is the original version - but frankly I would be at a loss to tell without that kind of external evidence. However the themes in these magazines are typically international, in the sense that a report about an experiment in Germany can be written in Greek or English or Icelandic, and you couldn't care less. With literature the situation is different. The original language is part of the work, and any translation is a different work. You can read Harry Potter in all kinds of languages for training and amusement, but somewhere in the back of your head you know that the English version is the real deal. And Dante's Commeddia is of course an Italian work, even if you have to read it in German or Russian. So reading something you could get through is the original language with slightly more effort is always a betrayal of the original work - no matter how good the translation is. I do see the point of rereading books in another language which you know less well, but then the correct thing to do would be to speedread a translation into your L1 first and then read the original work afterwards, taking all the necessary time for the purpose. And now for the real world: if you REALLY dig Harry Potter then I can understand that you fall for the temptation to use it as a study material. It would be more honorable and noble and all that to read an original work in Greek or Chinese, but if you can't find anything as fascinating in your target language as our dear sorcerer and his magic world then follow your heart and lock your dirty conscience away in a box "not to be opened before I know what happened to the evil lord Voldemort". 8 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5084 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 11 of 25 31 December 2011 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Where is the problem? So your Harry Potter is a young monk in a shaolin monastery, I find this fascinating, as long as it is written in a flawless language, flawless in itself, not in comparison with the original. The translation does not transfer some of the super intelligent puns of JKR? Bad thing, but why should I care, as I read the translation, not the original. For a more advanced learner the difference will be interesting to note, because he may learn about the structural differences of L orig and L trans. If you don't get what is going on even when comparing the original and the translation, then you are not very advanced and should not even bother what you read, just read any thing until you have become more competent. Now if you say that Chinese translations are written in a notoriously bad Mandarin, because the translations are made by censoring policemen, well, this would be a different story. Are Chinese translators so bad? Does a lot of literature get translated to Swahili or Thai at all? And if so are the translations written in a bad Swahili or Thai? Then thanks for the warning. The translations I have read in my European only languages use to be quite good. And I don't think a translation is necessarily worse the more different the languages are: It is exactly in languages like German and English, which are rather similar, that interference occurs, cognates get mixed up and syntactic structures can be imitated. Such things are less likely to occur in languages with very different origins.
This is interesting to hear, but not a general rule. I do like rereading texts I know, so what now? Maybe because I am n o t only interested in the story. A story, this means whodunnit? And when I know who did it the text gets boring? Sounds like a bad book, not like a bad translation ... 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6383 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 25 01 January 2012 at 8:24am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
though if you're obsessed and the work is long enough, i see nothing wrong with L-R over and over. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6336 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 13 of 25 01 January 2012 at 11:43am | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Please see the first post. This poll is about reading a translation of a novel you have already read.
Reading a novel over again is a pretty high price to pay for this little benefit. There are much greater benefits to be had by reading a new story, imo.
Not very helpful to a beginning reader and not relevant to the thread either.
Lots of material gets translated into Thai and Swahili. Thanks for asking. There are probably exceptions, but in general, the more different the 2 languages, the worse the translations.
Disagree. The issues you mention are minor compared the issues that exist when the languages are quite different.
If you want to re-read the same book for your first novel, instead of taking advantage of the benefits of new material, that's your choice. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6695 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 14 of 25 01 January 2012 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
I have no problems reading translations, but as soon as there is some language element in the story, it's usually not that good. I've read the Da Vinci code in Swedish and Spanish. At one point in the story, there is a message on the floor. The Swedish translation has kept the original English text "O, Draconian devil! Oh, Lame Saint!" (a wise decision in my opinion) while it's translated in the Spanish version - "Diavole in Dracon! Límala, Asno"... 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| lingoleng Senior Member Germany Joined 5084 days ago 605 posts - 1290 votes | Message 15 of 25 01 January 2012 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Very interesting. How many translated "stories" have you read in each of these languages? Doesn't it take more than basic fluency to judge the quality of a translation? A lot of books are translated, but the general quality is overall bad, not only in insignificant minor details? So bad that a foreigner reading these books will not feel like he is reading a Swahili or Thai book but something different that will affect his language learning in a negative way? He must be warned, else he will take damage? I mean, it is possible, of course, that Thai translations are bad because nobody pays the translators, and the translations are made by young enthusiasts and amateurs, who are not up to the task? Is it like that? What exactly is the problem when reading a translated book in these languages? And if there is one shouldn't it be announced in a different context, like "don't read Thai translations, they are not of professional quality!" instead of masking it as a poll about a novices first lecture? 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||||||||
| leosmith Senior Member United States Joined 6336 days ago 2365 posts - 3804 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Tagalog | Message 16 of 25 01 January 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||||||||
Totally agree. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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