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Serpent’s cyclic log: César, Sleipnir,adv

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
264 messages over 33 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 29 ... 32 33 Next >>
BAnna
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3255 days ago

409 posts - 616 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Spanish
Studies: Russian, Turkish

 
 Message 225 of 264
23 February 2015 at 5:59pm | IP Logged 
I am not a native Spanish speaker, but my husband is (from Central America, so it's the Latin American variety). He uses "creo" all the time to mean different things ranging from: I definitely think so, probably yes, I believe, I sort of think, I'm pretty sure, I'm not so sure or I don't believe so (creo que no ..), my opinion is ...a lot depends on the context and tone.

I don't know Italian, so cannot help there on the influence of credere. Hopefully a native or advanced Spanish speaker with a good knowledge of Italian will weigh in on this.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 226 of 264
23 February 2015 at 6:33pm | IP Logged 
Thanks for your comment! I agree that it depends on the tone etc and that's why I even posted the video on the previous page. The way he said it definitely sounded strange to me. Maybe he just accidentally put too much emphasis on creo because he spoke quite slowly. Or maybe I'm indeed reading too much into it :P (or actually listening)
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
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Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 227 of 264
11 March 2015 at 4:27pm | IP Logged 
I finally got the golden activity badge for the first time!!! So happy :)))) also because I got it by watching a very special match ♥ It was Real-Schalke04 Luka Modrić is back after being out for 114 days. And Cristiano scored two, so I was really happy I happened to be watching in Portuguese because of the badge. OMG, I might have watched in German otherwise. Ouch, I'm glad I didn't.

I've recently, eh, cruised through "Death on the Nile" by Agatha Christie (thanks to Criminal Case). I expected to get the badge yesterday morning but realized I hadn't watched enough football in Portuguese :D OMG this badge is *hard* to get, at least if you learn several languages but probably also if you learn one. I'm so impressed by everyone who has it, really.
Also got the third star. Portuguese probably won't remain my best SC language for long, but this is nice anyway.


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Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 3642 days ago

3277 posts - 6778 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 228 of 264
12 March 2015 at 3:02pm | IP Logged 
Congratulations, Serpent! I really admire your dedication to learning so many languages
so actively at once.

By the way, I accidentally found a lyrics training clone but it is dedicated to the same
languages (perhaps one more, not sure now). But have you found others for you "obscure"
languages, please? Swedish, Polish and so on appear to go unnoticed by lyrics training
totally.
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1e4e6
Octoglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 2923 days ago

1013 posts - 1587 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian
Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan

 
 Message 229 of 264
12 March 2015 at 8:48pm | IP Logged 
"creer" and "credere" are used in this same purpose in both Spanish and Italian.
Almost always do I use "creer que" and "credere che" regardless of the degree of
possibility. If you want to introduce less certainty, "creo que es posible que
[subjuntivo]" is natural. The same analogy can be used in Italian. The big difference
is in the subordinate clause, like suzukaze mentioned, Spanish uses indicative after
"creo que...", whilst Italian uses the subjunctive after "credo che". But both take
the subjunctive if you negate them.

There are some constructions that can take either subjunctive or indicative based on
degree of possibility, but "creer que" is not one of them, neither are others like
"suponer que", "pensar que", "calcular que", etc.

Quizás venga
Quizás viene

are both correct, but creo que venga is completely wrong. Not even in informal
language nor dialect can this be used, because "creer que" is a "non-negotiable"
unless you negate it.

About Ancelotti's Spanish, I have heard quite a few interviews of him in Spanish, and
he speaks quite well. The grammar is basically correct overall. His speed is more
Italian though, as in slower, but most languages sound slower compared to Spanish
anyway.

Regarding "lesser known languages", in 1993 when I started school, when I came home I
used to read through a phrasebook that my mother bought in the mid 1980s. It was for
travel to the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries, so I tried to learn the Cyrillic
alphabet and some Czech phrases. I still remember saying "dobrý deň" to people to
greet them although I lived in an Anglophone country.

Edited by 1e4e6 on 12 March 2015 at 10:13pm

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3799 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 230 of 264
12 March 2015 at 9:40pm | IP Logged 
Just don't use them in Portuguese (but that I guess you already know). Use 'eu acho' informally and "Eu acredito", "Eu entendo" or *nothing* in formal contexts.

Serpent, I liked your reports on your Spanish learning and I expect to read more and more qualitative rather than quantitative/competitive reports ;) What did this batch make for your learning and for your understanding of the lusophone culture?
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 5230 days ago

9753 posts - 15778 votes 
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Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
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 Message 231 of 264
12 March 2015 at 10:42pm | IP Logged 
1e4e6 wrote:
"creer" and "credere" are used in this same purpose in both Spanish and Italian. Almost always do I use "creer que" and "credere che" regardless of the degree of possibility. If you want to introduce less certainty, "creo que es posible que [subjuntivo]" is natural.
The same analogy can be used in Italian. The big difference is in the subordinate clause, like suzukaze mentioned, Spanish uses indicative after "creo que...", whilst Italian uses the subjunctive after "credo che". But both take the subjunctive if you negate them.
Thanks :) Does it sound natural to you in the specific context though? To me it sounds so careless, but maybe that's just the intonation or even my protectiveness of Luka ;P
edit: I really doubt that some languages are objectively spoken faster than others. And purely subjectively Italian and Spanish are equally fast to me. But yeah the intonation and emphasis vary a lot depending on the speed, and in my opinion if Ancelotti wanted to sound calm and confident, he wasn't very convincing.
How do you deal with the Spanish tener hecho structure btw? If you use it, do people ever take it as interference from your other Romance languages?

@Expugnator, that was mostly what emk described as consolidation [and cheating] :) I'm on my way to advanced fluency, although my grammar is definitely nowhere near good enough. Progress is slower at this stage... I liked the expression "um jogo de grande cartaz" for example. in Russian I would use something with the word вывеска btw :)
Thanks for pointing it out about crer btw. I've never thought of it explicitly but if someone used it, this would sound like a direct translation from English to me. So it can also be Portunhol then.

What exactly would you want to know? basically Spanish is like a sunny Mediterranean vacation. (European) Portuguese is like standing on the edge of Cabo da Roca and trying not to fall, and then finding a safe path towards the cool majestic ocean. Guess which one is more fun ;) Lol I've not done either thing really, sorry for the cheesy comparison. I'm mostly referring to the shortage of materials and the sometimes excessive prescriptivism. But no other Romance language resonates like that with me. Or maybe it's just that there's only one Moonspell.

Edited by Serpent on 12 March 2015 at 10:57pm

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1e4e6
Octoglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 2923 days ago

1013 posts - 1587 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian
Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan

 
 Message 232 of 264
12 March 2015 at 11:17pm | IP Logged 
In which context is "tener hecho" used? It is a Spanish construction, but it is used
for very specific cases. "tener + [participio pasado]" refers to something usually
done and/or ready. For example,

A: Y la paella, ¿la has empezado a preparar?
B: Sí, y además, ya la tengo hecha

which means that the paella is ready and done. It does not refer to the action of
preparing it.

But if you mean that you are using it like a presente de perfecto like "he hecho" and
you say "Tengo hecho una buena sopa de mariscos" as a direct substitution for "He
hecho una buena sopa de mariscos", then that is incorrect, and would most likely be
taken as interefence from a language that uses "tener" instead, like Portuguese, or
even Gallego.

Edited by 1e4e6 on 12 March 2015 at 11:23pm



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