|
 |
Tres Mentes, Trzy Światy: Team Żubr TAC12 | ||
Share with:
| ||
 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5353 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 17 of 123 13 January 2012 at 9:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Piątek Trzynasty
Nie wierzę, że Piątek Trzynasty jest feralny, ale nie sprzeciwiam się okazji pisać po polsku piątek trzynasty. Dzisiaj jest chmurny i też trochę zimny. Obecnie studiuję polski i słucham radia polskiego. Później dziś wieczorem idę wychodzić na kolację z kilka przyjaciółmi. Jutro idziemy iść do rynku po kilka warzywa i mięso, jajka, ser i może kilka owoce też. Potem jutro wieczorem idziemy zobaczyć bandę i mieć parę napoje. Teraz pada deszcz i wszystko jest pokojowe i odprężający. So Polish just keeps getting stranger... I just read that when numbers relating to men and numbers from 5 upwards are the subject of the sentence, you use the 3rd person singular of the verb. Dwóch, trzech, czterech studentów czeka na autobus - Two, three, four students (male/male and female) is waiting (lit.) for the bus. Pięć studentek (no males), pięciu turystów (male/male and female) jedzie do Warszawy - Five students, five tourists is going (lit.) to Warsaw. How bizarre. I wonder why and how this came about? Is there actually an explainable reason for this? Or simply another quirk of the language? I'm guessing it's implied then that it would of course be incorrect and sound odd to a native Pole if the 3rd person plural were used instead?.. One of those things you just need to accept and not overthink I guess. Polish, changing the way you look at language one idiosyncrasy at a time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4913 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 18 of 123 13 January 2012 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Dzień dobry!
My corrections: Vos: Nie wierzę, że Piątek Trzynasty jest feralny, ale nie sprzeciwiam się okazji pisać po polsku piątek trzynasty. Gosia's version: Piątek Trzynasty - piątek trzynastego Nie wierzę, że piątek trzynastego jest feralny, ale nie oprę się pokusie żeby pisać dzisiaj po polsku. piątek trzynastego - no capital letters because it is not a holiday nor a proper name, just a coincidence associated with bad luck trzynastego - 'piątek' that happened to be 'trzynastego' dnia miesiąca, possesive pierwszego dnia miesiąca, drugiego dnia miesiąca ... and so on sprzeciwiam się okazji - means 'I am against that possibility' nie oprę się pokusie - 'I will not fight the temptation' to do sth (żeby coś zrobić) You could also write: 'ale skorzystam z okazji żeby pisać po polsku w piatek trzynastego' - I WILL USE (skorzystam) z okazji Vos: Dzisiaj jest chmurny i też trochę zimny. Obecnie studiuję polski i słucham radia polskiego. Gosia: Dzisiaj jest pochmurny i też trochę zimny DZIEŃ. - you need a subject Dzisiaj mamy/Dzisiaj jest (today we have/today is) [insert descriptions] dzień. Dzisiaj jest pochmurnie (adverb) i trochę zimno. polskiego radia - adjectives first Vos: Później dziś wieczorem idę wychodzić na kolację z kilka przyjaciółmi. Gosia: Później dziś wieczorem - we do not have 'later this (today's) evening', you can pick 'później wieczorem' or ' dziś wieczorem' idę wychodzić - 'idę' alone means ' I go' and 'I'll go' in this sentence because you indicated the time it will happen (today in the evening) wychodzić - 'to go out' should be used in the correct form -> wychodzę to summ up: either you use 'idę' or 'wychodzę', time is indicated so the verbs can be in the present tense z kilka przyjaciółmi - z kilkoma przyjaciółmi, it's narzędnik case (5th out of 7) you forgot to decline the quantifiier Vos: Jutro idziemy iść do rynku po kilka warzywa i mięso, jajka, ser i może kilka owoce też. Gosia: idziemy iść - same as 'idę wychodzić', should be just 'idziemy' po kilka warzywa - po kilka WARZYW, biernik case (questions: kogo? co?) po kilka warzyw, mięso, jajka, ser i może kilka owoców - conjunction should be placed before the last noun when you enumerate various things, it is better to leave out'też' Vos: Potem jutro wieczorem idziemy zobaczyć bandę i mieć parę napoje. Gosia: Potem jutro wieczorem - a wieczorem idziemy... a band - zespół [insert any king of music; jazzowy, metalowy, rockowy, punkowy, bluesowy and so on] banda :D - this is a good one cause 'banda' in Polish means an organised group of youngsters, they move in packs 'idziemy do knajpy/baru zobaczyć zespół i wypić parę drinków' you do not 'have a drink' in Polish BUT you can 'shot yourselve a coupple of drinks' (unofficial) 'strzelić sobie parę drinków/piw ('pints' of beer) half a liter glasses of beer rather Vos: Teraz pada deszcz i wszystko jest pokojowe i odprężający. Gosia: wszystko jest 'pokojowe' - should be 'spokojne' pokojowe has got two meanings - one related to peace - > Pokojowa Pagroda Nobla - Nobel Peace Prize and one realted to 'rooms'-> meble pokojowe (furniture for one's room) odprężają-ce not -cy because 'wszystko' is neutral not masculine Vos: How bizarre. I wonder why and how this came about? Is there actually an explainable reason for this? Or simply another quirk of the language? I'm guessing it's implied then that it would of course be incorrect and sound odd to a native Pole if the 3rd person plural were used instead?.. One of those things you just need to accept and not overthink I guess. Polish, changing the way you look at language one idiosyncrasy at a time. Gosia: I do not know the reason but I'll try to find out. I think that I wasn't offered an explanation during my grammar classes at school. I imagine that it would involve lots of historical grammar, wich we did not tackle. You guessed correctly, the 3rd person plural would sound weird. Polish grammar lessons accompany one through the nine years of education (approximately), all along the primary school and gimnazjum. I remember doing tons of excercises and following examples and some rules I just took for granted. Your text is really good. Do not be discouraged by some odd points of Polish grammar. Remember that even native speakers suffer because of some of them. Edited by Gosiak on 13 January 2012 at 9:48pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| tozick Diglot Groupie Poland Joined 6149 days ago 44 posts - 69 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 19 of 123 13 January 2012 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
I can't really think of any clear rule that would explain it either. Everytime I thought i came up with one I would think of an example disproving it. On the other hand, in your example 'czterech studentów' and 'pięciu turystów' refers to males only; you'd say 'czworo/pięcioro studentów/turystów' if you meant people of both sexes. Edited by tozick on 13 January 2012 at 9:28pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Homogenik Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4611 days ago 314 posts - 407 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Polish, Mandarin | Message 20 of 123 14 January 2012 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Although I also am curious generally as to why things are the way they are, I find that when it comes to languages,
it's often best to not ask the question and just learn it how it is because every language has rules that make no sense at all. I don't really know about English, but my first language is french and there's a lot of non sense in french! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5353 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 21 of 123 16 January 2012 at 10:52am | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Week Two - Semana Dos - Tydzień Dwa
El Español Buenos días a todos. Una vez más tuve un finde bastante gigantesco. Tuvimos que arreglar toda la casa ya que este miércoles viene el agente inmobiliario quien va a comprobar todo para asegurarse de que nada esté en desorden ni en mala condición. Pero claro, la casa no lo es, pero todavía tuvimos que hacer bastante trabajo para hacerlo parecer lo mejor que pudiera. Corté el césped y arranqué los hierbajos, recogí las semillas de las plantas que ya han dado semillas para que la próxima primavera haya plantas frondosas para ensaladas por todos lados. Tuve que desmontar un enorme armario que estaba fuera desde hace meses y al que una tormenta había volcado. Y después de todo eso tuve que limpiar la cocina. Nos tardó mi compañera y yo casi 4 horas, pero bueno, ahora está hecho. Después, tuve que devolver un puñado de libros al biblioteca así que como hacía un día hermoso soleado, decidí ir en bici y seguir el carril bici que va casi al centro de la ciudad. Nunca lo había hecho antes así que era bueno ver por cuáles sitios pasa. El carril bici sigue el río grande que tenemos aquí, el que pasa casi por el corazón de la ciudad y que se extenda a las afueras. Por lo tanto se decidió construir un carril bici a lo largo del río para que todos que vivan en los barrios que rodean la ciudad, pudieran ir en bici a fin de llegar al trabajo o simplemente para dar un paseo en bici bueno. Era un paseo en bici bastante bonito, mucha fauna, muchos árboles y el río siempre a tu lado. Me tardó en torno a una hora para llegar a la biblioteca que está en el centro, que no es malo teniendo en cuenta que es un paseo en bici de casi 20 kilómetros. Un finde activo y productivo. Study wise - Again, I had a pretty good week of reading and adding new words to anki. Read 3 or 4 more short stories (around 40 pages) and read quite a few blogs and reviews of things. A great way to learn real Spanish, or for that matter the real any language. Also discovered (well, to be fair I did already know, but as to the extent not quite) that a library very close to me has an enormous range of Spanish books, somewhere in the region of 300 to 400 titles. Pretty crazy. So will most definitely be having a look around there once I finish my Allende (which may very well be done by the end of the week). Have also started watching the Argentinian series Epitafos, so will hopefully get some good exposure and comprehension practive via that. Polski Had I’d say a rather good week. Am up to chapter 9 now (mid way) in Colloquial Polish and made an attempt to write something as well, did my anki repetitions and added a bunch of new words. Also spent yesterday morning looking into Polish directors and films and managed to get quite a list together of people and films to check out, which will come in handy a bit later on when I’m ready to try some real Polish. One of the films however which I stumbled upon in my internet wanderings was the short animation entitled Krąg (the ring) by Jerzy Kucia. A strangely beautiful yet at times eerie animation which depicts the daily events of a few common animals interspersed with people enjoying some downtime in the countryside. The colours and aesthetic of the film I found very unique and unlike anything I’d seen growing up in Australia. You can watch the animation via the link below. Krąg by Jerzy Kucia Also a recurring thought which has been coming to mind over the past week or two has been to create some declension charts, so that whenever I’m unsure of how a noun/adjective/pronoun declines in whichever case, I can simply look up from my desk and there in front of me will be all the rules laid out. I’m hoping this will be a good way of gently drilling these rules into my head, as there is much to remember. So I think sometime this week I’ll get onto that. Het Nederlands Well I ended up doing quite a lot of Dutch last week. Wrote to my Oma as it was her birthday and then wrote a whole heap via this site. So got a few solid hours of exposure and use in. Also my mum’s finally got herself a phone, so now as she’s figuring out how to use it I keep getting odd Dutch messages every now and then. ---------------------------
So you can’t say ‘I’m going to go out’ in Polish? Or I’m/she’s/we’re going to + inf for that matter? As that’s what I was attempting to say with idę wychodzić/idziemy iść.
So the word I’m after for ‘band’ is zespół? Fantastic. I will never make that mistake again. Thank you so much for your massively in depth corrections, very very helpful and really points out how far I still have to go even to construct a few very simple sentences. But don’t worry, the motivation for learning Polish and the pleasure, sense of achievement and mental/spiritual satisfaction that it brings me will always outweigh the frustration, bewilderment and complexity that it poses. Homogenik - I agree. Learning languages is difficult enough already let alone when you get caught up on things like that. However I wanted to ask the question as for me personally, when I know there is a reason for something I tend to learn it better, so just wanted to find out if a known one existed as my textbook didn't give one. However in the absence of a reason, as is the case here, I do as you mentioned, simply accept it and hopefully remember it. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4913 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 22 of 123 16 January 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Oh, now I get what you wanted to convey! I am apparently really bad at spotting grammar interferences. I'll work on it. In Polish we do not use tenses and 'going to' construction to talk about the probability of doing what we plan. In English there are 3 basic ways (this is simplistic): 1. I will go to the party. - maybe 2. I am going to go to the party. - it's a plan 3. I am going! - no force can stop me :) In Polish: 1. Pójdę na imprezę. 2. Chcę iść na tę (it's 'the' party now) imprezę/ Zamierzam iść na tę imprezę/ Planuję iść Chcę - I want Zamierzam - I intend to Planuję - I plan to You need to have a verb signalizing intention first. 3. Będę na (tej) imprezie - I will be on that party. I think that using Polish future tense works fine but if you want to be on the safe side you have to add 'for sure' : Będę na tej imprezie, 'na pewno'. One asserts 'for sure'. As you can see it's not as simple as in English. Even if one says "Będę na tej imprezie" the populat response is "Ale na pewno?" - 'But for sure?' I hope this will help a bit.
Thank you for writing that. I was afraid that my posting of corrections and attempts to clarify some language point may harm your motivation. I'm glad you enjoy learning Polish. Thank you very much for the short film recommentation. Powodzenia :) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5353 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 23 of 123 16 January 2012 at 11:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
|
Ah, I understand now. Thank you so much for outlining that. For some reason I had in my mind that I had seen
the idę iść construction in my Polish book, which is why I used it in my writing the other day, but just had another look and of course in the dialogue they were doing what you wrote above. 'chcesz iść/znać' 'wolisz iść' etc. Well I'm glad I've erased that from my mind at an early stage, I guess I must have wrongly translocated it from the English and Spanish thinking that it would work fine in Polish. Silly! Again, thanks for pointing that out.
Your posting of corrections is the complete opposite of harmful. Without the help and input of native's like yourself, Polish would be much more difficult and confusing. So thanks for taking the time to explain a few things! Much appreciated.
There'll be more next week. Take care. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| ReneeMona Diglot Senior Member Netherlands Joined 5122 days ago 864 posts - 1274 votes Speaks: Dutch*, EnglishC2 Studies: French | Message 24 of 123 17 January 2012 at 1:34am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Er is niets raars aan een dialect. Stampot met haring, daarentegen.... :) Oliebolkramen staan er meestal van november tot januari want ze horen bij Oud en Nieuw. Ze schijnen nog uit de tijd van de Germanen te stammen, toen mensen geloofden dat een of andere godin op die avond door de hemel reed en mensen probeerde open te rijten. Het idee was dat door al het vet in de oliebol het zwaard van hun maag zou glijden, wat ik persoonlijk een briljant excuus voor ongezond eten vind. :)
Erwtensoep! En zuurkool met banaan, ananas en Hema-worst! Heerlijk.
Dankjewel voor het compliment. Ik heb al heel lang het plan om met een vriendin naar New York te gaan en dat zou dan deze zomer moeten gebeuren maar het staat nog niet vast. Ik ga zeker weten ook nog een keer naar Australië want het lijkt me een geweldig land en ik vind Australisch Engels zo leuk klinken. :) 2 persons have voted this message useful |
|  | 
Printable version
|
| Copyright 2024 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization. |
