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Tres Mentes, Trzy Światy: Team Żubr TAC12 | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5352 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 25 of 123 19 January 2012 at 10:16am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Un Homenaje al Té
Cuando uno despierta al sol de la mañana, se levanta de la cama y da los primeros pasos cojos del día, no está funcionando muy bien. Así que anda a la cocina, pone el agua a hervir y mientras mirando por la ventana a la espera de ese sonido conocido, piensa en lo que el día le traiga. Oye el hervidor y agarra una bolsita de té y la pone en su tazo predilecto, el rojo con el borde blanco, llena el tazo del agua caliente y espera sólo un minuto antes de quitar la bolsita, para que no se queme el té verde, que es algo delicado. Después de sacarla, añade una cucharadita de miel dorada, bella, producida de las abejas de las montañas, las que rodean la ciudad en la cual vive y las que admiraba antes, mientras mirando algo ausentemente por la ventana. Revuelve el agua verdosa, de pinta benigna y, lo levanta a sus labios para tomar el primer sorbo del día. De repente su mente se vuelve clara como la luz del sol que ya está entrando la casa. Su cuerpo se vuelve fuerte, estable, donde antes era como un fantasma de sí mismo y le entra a su ser un calidez y certeza, una sutil alegría de ser viva, y ahora, puede empezar el día. No lo sé exactamente la razón por la que empecé a escribir sobre el té esta mañana, pero dado que lo bebo un montón, tal vez eso fue como una oda, un homenaje, una gracia a esa bebida que me ayuda cada mañana a aprovechar el día. Polski Jestem studentem i mieszkam w Australii. Gdzie mieszkam pogodę zawsze jest nieprzewidywalną i może chodzić od naprawdę zimnej do bardzo upalnej za kilka godzin. Może być czasami dość dokuczliwa, ale jest zawsze zaskoczenie. Dzisiaj studiowałem hiszpański i polski na parę godzin i robiłem trochę matematyki, skoro ona muszę robić na uniwersytet. Dzień dobry. I find that writing little things in Polish every now and then is a good way of making myself use different cases and allows them to sink in and take root much more effectively, instead of simply copying things and doing exercises from my textbook. So will try to write a bit more frequently than what I'm doing at present. Here's another interesting thing which I learnt the other day about our unique friend: Polish sometimes enjoys taking a few of the endings of the past tense forms of verbs and connecting them to the conjunction which came before it. For example: Wiem, że tam byłeś/byłaś - I know that you were there Wiem, żeś tam był?była - I know that you were there Gdzie mieszkaliście? - where did you live? Gdzieście mieszkali? - where did you live? Długo czekaliśmy na autobus - we were waiting/waited a long time for the bus Długośmy czekali na autobus - we were waiting/waited a long time for the bus What surprises will be next I wonder... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5395 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 26 of 123 19 January 2012 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hola Vos, muy lindas historias que escribiste acá. Yo también tomo un montón de té, hay
uno en Australia que me encanta, se llama "Australian Breakfast Tea", ¿alguna vez lo probaste? Hmm.. leí que fuiste a una biblioteca que tiene más d 200 libros en español... ¿Estás también en la ciudad más grande de Victoria? ¿Me podés decir donde queda la biblioteca? Mandame un PM si estás acá también, me mudé hace 6 meses. A propósito, por favor me decís si te gusta Epitafios. Nunca lo vi pero escuché que es muy bueno. Vi unos otros series argentinos y no me gustaron muchos (Disputas y Tumberos). Te puedo recomendar un montón de pelis argentinas si querés. Me encanta Cortázar, especialmente "Un Tal Lucas" ¡te cagaras de risa! Te recomiendo también Sobre Héroes y Tumbas por Ernesto Sabato. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gosiak Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4912 days ago 241 posts - 361 votes Speaks: Polish*, English, German Studies: Norwegian, Welsh | Message 27 of 123 19 January 2012 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Polski
Vos: Gdzie mieszkam pogodę zawsze jest nieprzewidywalną i może chodzić od naprawdę zimnej do bardzo upalnej za kilka godzin. Gosia: Tam, gdzie mieszkam pogoda zawsze jest nieprzewidywalna i może przechodzić od naprawdę zimnej do bardzo upalnej w kilka godzin. Tam, gdzie - there where; 'gdzie' is used at the begining of a question pogoda jest (zawsze) nieprzewidywalna - 1st case (who?what?) przechodzić - to walk through or to change states w kilka godzin - in X hours - the amount of hours it takes for the wether to change, 'za' kilka godzin - X hours from now -> za pięć godzin - in 5 hours Vos: Może być czasami dość dokuczliwa, ale jest zawsze zaskoczenie. Gosia: zaskoczenie - a state of being surprised zaskakująca - surprising (adjective) ale zawsze jest zaskakujaca Vos: Dzisiaj studiowałem hiszpański i polski na parę godzin i robiłem trochę matematyki, skoro ona muszę robić na uniwersytet. Gosia: Dzisiaj studiowałem hiszpanski i polski przez parę godzin i robiłem trochę matematyki bo muszę ją robić na uniwersytet. na parę godzin - for few hours as in 'could you give me that for few hours' przez parę godzin - X hours long na uniwersytet - Polish speakers say 'for studies' - 'na studia' Dzień dobry - it is 'good morning' and 'good afternoon' combined, you can beginn your text with that expression but never end. 'have a nice day' - 'miłego dnia', it is a short form of 'życzę miłego dnia' [I wish a nice day] miły - pleasant/nice (masculine) Well done! Powodzenia w dalszej nauce ;) 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5352 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 28 of 123 21 January 2012 at 6:24am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
So if I want to say ‘where’ as a conjunction in Polish, I use ‘tam/tu, gdzie’? For example: That place where we went yesterday - To miejsce tam, gdzie szliśmy wczoraj?
I’ve noticed that you’ve been using this 1st, 2nd, 3rd case etc, system when explaining which case to use, which seems really helpful in understanding all the cases and their uses. Any chance you’d be able to share them with me if you have a spare moment? So the 1st case is definitely the nominative (who? what?). Very helpful and practical way of thinking about it.
In the above sentence I was trying to say, ‘it can be annoying at times, but it’s always a surprise’. Doesn’t work?
When I ended my little piece of writing with ‘dzień dobry’, I was wanting to say ‘a good day’, as in a productive one. How would I go about this without it sounding like I’m saying ‘good morning’? haha... Your corrections are always so helpful! Dziękuję bardzo jako zawsze Gosiak.
Hola Quabazaa, nunca he probado ese té pero creo que lo he visto (¿se vende por una de las empresas de té más grandes en una caja roja no?). Mi predilecto o más bien mi sangre de vida es el té verde (al que añado un poco de miel, maravilloso). Gracias por las recomendaciones de libros, y sí, siempre estoy interesado en descubrir nuevas pelis, libros, música, cualquier cosa relacionada con el mundo hispánico. De hecho estoy para acabar el libro que estoy leyendo de momento así que voy a tener un nuevo muy pronto. Pues acabo de ver el segundo episodio de Epitafios hoy y puedo decir que es fácil de ver (¿watchable?). Para mí es como una mezcla entre ‘Dexter’ y la peli ‘Seven’, pero no del mismo nivel. Es muy dramático, un poco predecible y bastante típico de series de esa calaña (el asesino le gusta un montón la música ópera y escribir mensajillos en clave y demás, y el poli principal no duerme ni come mucho y siempre se vuelve agresivo sobre la menor cosa), pero todavía es emocionante ver un programa de un país sudamericano y entender lo que está pasando (por lo cual tal vez no sea tan interesante para ti ya que tu español ya es muy bueno). Así que si te gustan programas y pelis como Dexter y Seven salvo con un toque argentino, quizás te gustará. Con respecto a tus otras preguntas, te enviaré un mensaje privado. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| tozick Diglot Groupie Poland Joined 6148 days ago 44 posts - 69 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 29 of 123 21 January 2012 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Not quite. In that case i would say 'To miejsce, do którego poszliśmy wczoraj' (This place to which we went yesterday) 'szliśmy - iść' is an imperfective form btw, the perfective one is 'poszliśmy - pójść' Another way of saying that would be 'Tam, gdzie poszliśmy wczoraj' (There where we went yesterday). I think that the 'tam, gdzie' construction is simply used if you want to start the sentence with it. You simply can't say 'Gdzie' at the beginning of a sentence as that can only be used for questions. While they are both correct and completely fine you would use them particularly if you wanted to stress the action of going somewhere. Saying 'To miejsce, w którym byliśmy wczoraj' or 'Tam, gdzie byliśmy wczoraj' seems more natural to me if you wanted to convey a meaning of being somewhere the previous day.
What Gosia is using is the order which we are taught at primary schools in Poland. It is somewhat different to the traditional Latin one. It goes as follows. 1st - nominative (mianownik) with its questions : (kto? co?) 2nd - genitive (dopełniacz) : kogo? czego? 3rd - dative (celownik) : komu? czemu? 4th - accusative (biernik) : kogo? co? 5th - instrumental (narzędnik) : (z) kim? (z) czym? 6th - locative (miejscownik) : o kim? o czym? 7th - vocative (wołacz) So, as an example, let me use three words 'kot, dziecko, and książka (a cat, a child, and a book with the first of them being masculine, the second one neuter, and the last feminine). 1st - kot / dziecko / książka 2nd - kota / dziecka / książki 3rd - kotu / dziecku / książce 4th - kota / dziecko / książkę 5th - kotem / dzieckiem / książką 6th - kocie / dziecku / książce 7th - kocie / dziecko / książko And some sample sentences: 1st case: To jest kot. (This is a cat) Moje dziecko nie chce jeść. (My child doesn't want to eat) Ta książka została napisana przez X. (This book was written by X) 2nd case: Nienawidzę tego kota. (I hate this cat) Nic nie powstrzyma tego dziecka. (Nothing can stop this kid) Nie mam tej książki. (I don't have that book) 3rd case: Daj kotu jeść. (Feed the cat) Nie powinieneś się wyżywać na dziecku. (You shouldn't take it out on a kid) Były ukryte w książce. (They were hidden in a book) 4th case: Widzę kota. (I see a cat) Chcę mieć dziecko. (I want to have a baby) Chyba kupię tę książkę. (I think I'll buy this book) 5th case: Wyszedł z kotem na spacer. (He took the cat for a walk) Rozmawiam z dzieckiem. (I'm talking with a kid) Zawszę podróżuję z książką. (I always travel with a book) 6th case: Chciałbyś coś wiedzieć o tym kocie? (Would you like to know anything about this cat?) Pomyśl o dziecku. (Think about the kid) Co sądzisz o tej książce? (What do you think about that book?) And the 7th case is pretty much useless when it comes to those words so there is no need for examples as they'd all sound odd.
Nope, it doesn't. At the same time I can't think of a really natural way of conveying that message in one sentence. That's because saying something along the lines of 'Czasami jest naprawdę dokuczliwa, ale zawsze jest zaskakująca' sounds just odd to me. Not that it is gramatically incorrect it's simply the fact that in that sentence it sounds as if you were complaining that it can be annoying, and then adding another complain that it's also unpredictable. The only thing that comes to my mind, which isn't perfect either to me' is something like 'Czasami może być naprawdę dokuczliwa, lecz czasem potrafi pozytywnie zaskoczyć' (Sometimes it can be really anoying, but at times it can positively surprise). This way you are saying that while it can be really bad sometimes it can be a nice surprise. Which makes it sound more optimistic and all that. If that isn't what you were aiming for, then nevermind.
You'd simply say 'Miłego dnia' - have a good/nice/pleasant day. One more thing. In the sentence 'Dzisiaj studiowałem hiszpański i polski przez parę godzin...' we don't really use the word 'studiować' to mean 'to study'. In the context of studies we use it to mean 'to study at a university'. So, e.g. 'Co studiujesz?' means 'What (subject) are you reading at university?' 'Studiuję historię' => 'I'm reading History at university' So your sentence would means that you had a couple of hours of Spanish and Polish at university. The second meaning of 'studiować' is to examine something with great care, 'to peruse'. I hope it was helpful. Good luck with your studies. EDIT: Oh and 1 more thing. Regarding
I would say you would be better off learning the more standard forms (the first ones). That is simply beacuse many of sentences with the ending added to the preceeding words sound wrong/rude and they often have a somewhat negative feeling to them. Moreover, their correctness depends on the function of words to which you add the ending, so that 'żeś' is normatively correct when 'że' is a conjunction while it is not quite as correct when 'że' is a (grammatical) particle; it is correct when it is one kind of particle and completely incorrect when it's another kind of particle (sorry I don't know their names in English) Another thing is they belong to the informal register so it probably makes sense to leave them for later, when you have a really good grasp of the formal language. And, finally, a random thing is that the first sentence that came to my mind when I thought about it was 'Coś ty zrobiła?' which means 'What (the heck) have you done?' and a bunch of other, similar negative sounding sentences so I think that's how it's most often used. So what I'm saying is, it's good to know that we sometimes use them like that but it's not necessarily the best idea to try to use it actively early on, I guess. Edited by tozick on 21 January 2012 at 4:06pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Vos Diglot Senior Member Australia Joined 5352 days ago 766 posts - 1020 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Dutch, Polish | Message 30 of 123 23 January 2012 at 11:39am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Week Three - Semana Tres - Tydzień Trzy
El Español La semana pasada fue de costumbre, leí algunos cuentos, unos cuantos artículos de El País y un par de páginas de unas bitácoras. También escuché un montón de radio (al fondo), vi dos capítulos de Epitafios y escribí bastante. No mucho que decir hoy, hace muy caluroso y por lo cual no puedo ni tengo ganas de hacer mucho. Tengo que esperar hasta que el sol se empiece a poner antes de que comience a estudiar el polaco. También quiero dar un paseo antes de que anochezca, o tal vez dar un paseo en bici. Por desgracia no alcancé a acabar el libro de cuentos última semana pero solo me quedan 40 páginas más o menos entonces mi meta para esta semana será terminar ese libro. Y luego tendré la interesante elección de escoger mi próximo libro. ¿Cuál debería ser? Polski Last week was a slow but steady one. Finished lesson 10 of Colloquial Polish and reviewed the genitive and locative cases (something which I will need to do many times more as they are like water on my teflon memory). Also added some new words to anki, currently sitting at 423 entries. Unfortunately I didn’t manage to make my case charts, however over the weekend it became even more apparent to me that having a few charts on the wall there and ready to be reviewed daily would be a huge help, and for me personally the only way to go in order to turn those case endings into second nature. So again, this week I will strive to make some case charts. The site below is a blog by some people who have been studying Polish for some years now and tend to put up posts explaining certain aspects of the Polish language. A good site for getting your head around this complex language explained in simple English. Polish Language Blog Het Nederlands So as I mentioned last week, my mum finally got herself a phone (actually she was given one for christmas) and has started sending me messages in Dutch, I just realised on the weekend however something rather interesting about her messages... the way she spells. For example: myn, fyftien, vriendilyk etc. (ij = y) So I looked around on the web as it occured to me that perhaps this is some Twents way of doing things, and sure enough, it is. If anyone’s interested in learning a bit more about Het Twents you can download a list of the spelling rules with pronunciation guides via the site below (lots of other things like stories too). Under Schriefwiezer (in Dutch). Het Twents And the link below is also a good site for finding more links about Het Twents, and there’s also a few expressions in Twents with their Dutch and English counterparts. Phrases in Het Twents Aju! -----------------------------
That is what I was attempting to say. That ‘although it can be annoying at times, it’s always a surprise (in a good way)’.
So what would be an equivalent verb for ‘to study’ in a general sense in Polish? Or would you use another construction altogether? For example, would ‘dzisiaj uczyłem się trochę polskiego’ sound natural and get the ‘study’ idea across?
Duly noted. That’s odd actually that the book didn’t mention its negative connotation, only that it was very commonly used in the colloquial language.
It was very much indeed. Thank you so much for taking the time to write that and explain it all. Dziękuję bardzo. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| tozick Diglot Groupie Poland Joined 6148 days ago 44 posts - 69 votes Speaks: Polish*, English | Message 31 of 123 23 January 2012 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Now that i read it again even the sentence provided by me isn't really correct. So what you could say is: Czasami jest naprawdę dokuczliwa, ale/lecz potrafi też pozytywnie zaskoczyć. Bywa naprawdę dokuczliwa, ale/lecz (czasem) potrafi też pozytywnie zaskoczyć. Choć zwykle jest naprawdę nieprzyjemna, zdarzają się wyjątki. (Although it tends to be unpleasant, there are exceptions) All three sound normal to me so it's up to you which one you prefer. They are, of course, not the only ones possible and you could say it in tens of different ways, but these three certainly sound ok.
'uczyć się' is the word indeed; so in your example it could be one of the following: Dzisiaj uczyłem się hiszpańskiego i polskiego.(Today I studied some Spanish and Polish) There is no need for the word 'some' here. The sentence is clear without it if you use the imperfective verb and specify the time with 'today'. On a side note, sooner or later you're bound to come across this phrase 'w dniu dzisiejszym' meaning 'today'. It seems to be relatively popular in the media and online but you should try to avoid it as it's usually considered incorrect. Uczyłem się dziś hiszpańskiego i polskiego przez X godzin. (I studied Sp. and Pol. for X hours today.) This sentence you'd use if you wanted to specify how many hours you spent doing it. If you wanted to stress the period of time you'd move the 'przez X godzin' to the beginning of the sentence - Przez X godzin uczyłem się dziś hiszpańskiego i polskiego. If you were still in the process of studying at the time of writing you'd say Od X godzin uczę się hiszpańskiego i polskiego. (I've been studying Sp. and Pol. for X hours.) Then there are verbs which you can use in place of 'uczyć się' to make it clearer what you think about the time of studying. Since the majority of people don't like studying those words are often negative. Z X godzin siedziałem dziś nad hiszpańskim. siedzieć means 'to sit'. Used like that it points out that the process wasn't really enjoyable and, possibly that you didn't really get anywhere. Od X godzin ślęczę nad hiszpańskim. This is somewhat harsher than the previous one. It's kind of like 'I've been sat trying to study for hours and it's just hopeless'. Also something like 'Cały dzień uczę się hiszpańskiego' depending on the context can mean that you're getting nowhere with your studies. Commonly you'd hear something like 'Cały dzień się uczę i nic' (The whole day I've been studying and nothing). It's rather colloquial, though. Right, that's pretty much all I can think of now. Should you have any more questions... 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Quabazaa Tetraglot Senior Member United States Joined 5395 days ago 414 posts - 543 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, German, French Studies: Japanese, Korean, Maori, Scottish Gaelic, Arabic (Levantine), Arabic (Egyptian), Arabic (Written) | Message 32 of 123 23 January 2012 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ah, Epitafios suena muy interesante entonces. Me encanta la serie "Dexter"! Jeje. ahora en español veo cosas para divertirme, no importa tanto si aprendo algo o no. Igual hay más cosas que aprender todavía, hasta con castellano argentino que es mi punto fuerte. Aunque gente me dice que hablo muy bien, no sé, para mí es evidente que todavía no puedo explicarme en castellano como quiero. Me frustra un poco. Lleva tiempo realmente hablar "con fluidez" (¡lo que sea que eso signifique!) Te recomiendo también una serie española, se llama "Los Hombres de Paco" es acerca de un comisario, y es muy, pero muy gracioso. Los tipos son unos tontos, jaja. Se podía ver gratis en el sitio web de Atena 3.. a ver.. sí, todavía se puede ver acá Gracias por el mensaje, te escribiré pronto :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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