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Georgian Notes, Doubts and Tips TAC 2013

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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Brazil
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Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 233 of 758
16 May 2012 at 11:05pm | IP Logged 
Wonderful help, Murdoc!

ბრუნება is declension and წოდებითი is vocative. I see why there's no point in having vocative for a demonstrative, since it's something or someone you're pointing at, not talking directly to.

I've reviewed the exercises and learned a lot, thanks for the answers. I could already grasp the meaning of the sentences, was in doubt about the endings. Now it starts to make sense. There is only one more exercise that I'll post later, already with my own answers. For the others in that chapter I got the answer key, fortunately.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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Brazil
Joined 3798 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 234 of 758
17 May 2012 at 12:09am | IP Logged 
1.ჩემმა მასწავლებელმა რამდენიმე ენა იცის. 2. მე ხშირად ვარ სტუმრად შენი დედასთან. 3. გივი თავისი რვეულს მზიას აძლევს. 4. ჩემი აზრით ეს რომანი ძალიან საინტერესოა. 5. ჩემს პროფესორს მდიდარი ბიბლიოთეკა აქვსჩემს პროფესორს მდიდარი ბიბლიოთეკა აქვს. 6. ახალ წელს მე ჩემი სტუმრებისთვის გოზინაყს ვაკეთებ.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3798 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 235 of 758
17 May 2012 at 12:50am | IP Logged 
1. ქართველები, ვისთანაც მე სტუმრად ვიყავი, კარგად ლაპარაკობენ გერმანულად.
Why the -ც at ვისთანაც? Is it part of the accusative ending?

2. Is რომლებიც exclusive for the ergative or can it be used in all cases? Is it plural?

3. It seems you first add the normal subjective pronoun in the proper case and then the -ც ending:

საიდან გაქვს ის ფანქარი, რითაც წერ? Where (from) have you got this pencil you're writing with? (is it so?)

5. არის მანდ ვინმე? Is anyone there?

Any clue when to use ვინმე and when to use ვიღაც?

6. მე რაღაცას ვხედავ, მაგრამ ცუდად. I see something, but badly.
Again the ღა, I assume it is accusative then?

It was a tough lesson, I'm glad I finished it because I wasn't able to move on since Friday. Dealing with pronouns in several cases at once wasn't much easy. Only in Tschenkeli's I believe I'll find enough explanation as well as exercises to practice grammar.

Lesson 11's dialogue also seems troublesome to understand, but that's how I'm going to learn rather than revise.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
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3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 236 of 758
18 May 2012 at 1:06am | IP Logged 
Today I first got in touch with adding objective affixes to verbs.
Sentences like "I see you", "She paints me". All is still complicated. I don't know when the prefix for the object ends and when the normal, personal subject preffix starts. It seems the ending is always related to the subject, not the object.

1. A sentence like მე თქვენ გხედავთ. Does it mean "you see me?" or "I see you"? Since pronouns don't change in case, only the preffixes help know who is the object.

2. I don't get this sentence:
ჩვენ ყველა გვხედავს, როცა ეზოში ვსაუბრობთ.

Does it mean "We see all of us (each other)" or "we all see everything" when we talk in the yard?

3. მშენებლები ჩვენს ქუჩაზე ახალ სახლს აშენებენ.
Does it mean "The painters paint a new house at our street"?

4. მე თქვენი გპირდებით, რომ წყნარად ვიქნები. I promise you that I will be quiet.
Where is the mark in the verb that states that "I" am the subject (1st sg)? There's no "ვ" letter.
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TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
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Japan
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Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian
Studies: Georgian

 
 Message 237 of 758
18 May 2012 at 1:26am | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
1. A sentence like მე თქვენ გხედავთ. Does it mean "you see me?" or
"I see you"? Since pronouns don't change in case, only the preffixes help know who is
the object.


It means "I see you". The გ ... თ is the object prefix for თქვენ. The ვ of the
subject prefix disappears.

Expugnator wrote:
2. I don't get this sentence:
ჩვენ ყველა გვხედავს, როცა ეზოში ვსაუბრობთ.

Does it mean "We see all of us (each other)" or "we all see everything" when we talk in
the yard?


It means "Everyone sees us when we talk in the garden". The გვ is the object prefix
for ჩვენ and ს is the subject affix for ყველა.

Expugnator wrote:
3. მშენებლები ჩვენს ქუჩაზე ახალ სახლს აშენებენ.
Does it mean "The painters paint a new house at our street"?


Yes. EDIT: just noticed it actually means "the builders build" not "the painters paint"!

Expugnator wrote:
4. მე თქვენი გპირდებით, რომ წყნარად ვიქნები. I promise you that I
will be quiet.
Where is the mark in the verb that states that "I" am the subject (1st sg)? There's no
"ვ" letter.


ვ disappears when there is another object prefix.

The polypersonal verb forms are very strange at first but if you learn the rules about
which affixes and suffixes go where, they are quite easy to get used to.

Edited by TixhiiDon on 19 May 2012 at 3:36pm

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3798 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 238 of 758
18 May 2012 at 11:48pm | IP Logged 
Do you recommend a specific source that would explain polypersonal verbs, Tixhiidon?

A troublesome week, I'm glad it's over. I hope I can continue on Monday and make some progress.
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TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
Japan
Joined 4096 days ago

772 posts - 1473 votes 
Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian
Studies: Georgian

 
 Message 239 of 758
19 May 2012 at 12:18am | IP Logged 
Take a look at Aronson Chapter 7. He spells it all out quite clearly, with a large table of all possible
combinations. My advice would be to concentrate on the direct object forms first, and don't worry too much
about the indirect objects, which are quite confusing. Also ignore Class 4 verbs (e.g. I love you, She wants
me) for the time being.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3798 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 240 of 758
21 May 2012 at 9:45pm | IP Logged 
I took a look at Chapter 7 and it seems fairly complicated, especially when it comes to indirect objects. The good side of it is that I confirmed my assumptions that some verbal forms are indeed ambiguous and for these you need personal pronouns.

============================
book2 looks like a neverending resource. Right now lessons seem to focus on specific grammar competencies (at least the past 3 on negations and now on needs and wishes). Anyway, it seems I won't finish it this semester. This will leave me with less room for picking up a new method next semester, which would be either resuming Hewitt or tackling Tschenkeli's for learning Grammar.
============================
Lehrbuch der Georgischen Sprache is working more for conversation and for acquiring the grammar structures that are evident from context. I'd still need a reference grammar for object preffixes, for instance, and I don't have access to their grammar chart. That means I may need serious grammar next semester. I am less and less inclined to actually read through Aronson's, other than just checking it out now and then. Surprisingly the network here blocks An Outline of Georgian Grammatical Description at armazi.co.uk, so I miss this quick reference. I'm more and more convinced Tschenkeli is the way to go, even more so now that I start to get a hang of German language teaching vocabulary.


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