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Georgian Notes, Doubts and Tips TAC 2013

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zecchino1991
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778 posts - 885 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Italian, Modern Hebrew, Russian, Arabic (Written), Romanian, Icelandic, Georgian

 
 Message 281 of 758
12 June 2012 at 11:39pm | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:

ახლახან means "just" as of 'right now. Does it mean 'only' as well (being a synonim to
მხოლოდ then)?

I'm not sure, but it looks like it comes from ახლა, so I would think it could only mean
the former.

By the way, I just want to say that I learn a lot from reading your log. Keep it up! :)
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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Brazil
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3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 282 of 758
12 June 2012 at 11:54pm | IP Logged 
One more text conquered, 7 big ones left. I'm starting to get the hang of it, even though of course I don't have much vocabulary and can't make sentences on my own.

One inspiring sentence to keep about David Kurapalati =D :

"მან რამდენიმე ენა იცოდა და ბევრს კითხულობდა."
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TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
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Speaks: English*, Japanese, German, Russian
Studies: Georgian

 
 Message 283 of 758
13 June 2012 at 12:32am | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
ბინა უნდა დაგველაგებინა.We had to clean the apartment.
Which tense is დაგველაგებინა? I don't see how the past is implied here. How would the
present be then, i.e. "We have to clean the apartment"?


დაგველაგებინა is the pluperfect tense of დაალაგებს ("to tidy up"), which is used
after უნდა to indicate past obligation. უნდა, when used to mean "must", doesn't
change in any tense so you use the optative, which here would be დავალაგოთ, to
indicate the present, as in ბინა უნდა დავალაგოთ.

Expugnator wrote:
არ გვინდოდა დიდხანს დარჩენა. We did not want to stay long.
How about now? This time, გვინდოდა is in the past. Any implications to the main verb?
What's the difference from above?


This time you are using მინდა ("want"), which does change in the past tense: მინდა -
მინდოდა, გვინდა - გვინდოდა. You could also use the pluperfect of დარჩება ("to
remain") here, which would be არ გვინდოდა დიდხანს დავრჩენილიყავით, but the author
has gone with the verbal noun დარჩენა instead, presumably because the past is already
indicated by გვინდოდა. As usual, I don't know when the pluperfect/optative is better
and when the verbal noun is preferred. In the present using the optative, by the way,
this would be გვინდა დავრჩეთ.

Edited by TixhiiDon on 13 June 2012 at 12:39am

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3801 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 284 of 758
13 June 2012 at 9:59pm | IP Logged 
It's starting to make sense, Tixhiidon. Thanks for the explanations, I'll keep record of it. I have to think of optative and pluperfect as two subjunctive screeves, their usage is closer to Romance languages than to English. Thinking about the English translations won't help. In Portuguese we have each of the subjunctives alive and kicking.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3801 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 285 of 758
13 June 2012 at 10:28pm | IP Logged 
book2 - Twelve to go!!

ჩემს ცოლს არ სურდა ჩემთან ჭადრაკის თამაში. My wife did not want to play chess with me.

Now with this sentence:
a) სურდა is a 4th verb so the subject goes to dative, even in the past, right? Which would be the present form?
b) which tense is თამაში?

მას უფლება არ ჰქონდა ნაყინი ეჭამა. He was not allowed to eat ice cream.
Now with this construction: to express "not allowed to", i need to use "to-him right not to want"? It would make sense if არ came before უფლება, but that's not what I've seen in the textbook.


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TixhiiDon
Tetraglot
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 Message 286 of 758
13 June 2012 at 11:53pm | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
ჩემს ცოლს არ სურდა ჩემთან ჭადრაკის თამაში. My wife did not want
to play chess with me.

Now with this sentence:
a) სურდა is a 4th verb so the subject goes to dative, even in the past, right? Which
would be the present form?
b) which tense is თამაში?


a) Yes, the subject is dative even in the past. The present form would be სურს, which
also means "want" basically but is closer to "has a desire to".
b) თამაში is the verbal noun. If you used the pluperfect (second subjunctive) it
would be არ სურდა ჩემთან ჭადრაკი ეთამაშა.

Expugnator wrote:
მას უფლება არ ჰქონდა ნაყინი ეჭამა. He was not allowed to eat ice
cream.
Now with this construction: to express "not allowed to", i need to use "to-him right
not to want"? It would make sense if არ came before უფლება, but that's not what I've
seen in the textbook.


The verb is "have", not "want", so this literally means "He didn't have the right to
eat ice cream". არ must always come immediately before the verb so here you get არ
ჰქონდა. Here the pluperfect ეჭამა is used. If you used the verbal noun instead I
guess it would be მას ნაყინის ჭამის უფლება არ ჰქონდა, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Edited by TixhiiDon on 13 June 2012 at 11:55pm

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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3801 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 287 of 758
14 June 2012 at 12:10am | IP Logged 
Been through another text. Just finished Tamar's reign. Now three other (larger) texts up to the 20th century then three huge dialogues still about History and I'm done.

I'm glad Google Translator is working better after zechhino's tips, so I don't have to resort to the German translation, which sometimes is more difficult to understand due to unusual German syntax. When I translate word by word in Georgian, I also get more used to Georgian syntax which is my focus now.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 3801 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 288 of 758
14 June 2012 at 12:47am | IP Logged 
I see, Tixhiidon. Still, that confuses me.

If უფლება არ ჰქონდა means "did not have the right to", how would "Had the right NOT to" be?

As for the rest, thanks again! I'm getting used. You seem to have learned a lot, too, for you are more certain about your answers.

I wasn't expecting a verbal noun to end in -ი (თამაში) hence my doubt. I see that there are tricky differences as for when you use the verbal noun and the subjunctive tenses.


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