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Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
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China
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Joined 2815 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1081 of 1511
24 January 2014 at 9:37pm | IP Logged 
Yeah, for me they sound almost the same somehow. I theoretically can differentiate
between the two, but somehow in Korean, both sounds register as 어

I think this is where it shows that I am Dutch, not an American - an anglophone can
register the different sounds easily (so can I, but I rarely pronounce the -어 as in
American English) - because for me, there's only one o sound in my native language, so
variants kind of merge into o for me. I can hear the difference when you say them,
especially in American contexts, but it's much harder in Korean, where I muddle
everything up.





Edited by tarvos on 24 January 2014 at 9:39pm

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Марк
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Russian Federation
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2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 1082 of 1511
24 January 2014 at 9:50pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
У нас второй текст!

Мы с помощью Вией Дивой записали еще штуковину!

A second attempt at Russian, different text this time. I followed Via Diva's
pronunciation guide but the text was quite long so I lost track halfway somewhere.

Don't hurry. Read slower, it will be easier for you to pronounce and for others - to
listen.
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druckfehler
Triglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 2976 days ago

1181 posts - 1912 votes 
Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean
Studies: Persian

 
 Message 1083 of 1511
24 January 2014 at 9:57pm | IP Logged 
Hmm... I didn't think the 오 - 어 differentiation was a problem in your recording. We have the same two sounds in German 오: Sohn, 어: Sonne). I noticed that you used "n" instead of "ng" twice; in 영어 and 정말. Watch out for that. I also thought you pronounced some of the beginning consonants a bit too hard (making ㄱ sound like ㅋ and ㅈ like ㅊ) but that's a finer point... A KOrean might still have some trouble understanding you, but I think as soon as your sentence melody gets better (which I'm sure it will when you're a little more fluent) your pronunciation will sound a lot more natural. I've heard far more problematic accents ;)
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
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China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2815 days ago

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Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1084 of 1511
24 January 2014 at 10:07pm | IP Logged 
Those letters are k and ch to me... the variants are aspirated. I would only pronounce
them as g and English j intervocalically.
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Evita
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Latvia
learnlatvian.info
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Studies: Korean, Finnish

 
 Message 1085 of 1511
24 January 2014 at 10:07pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
Yeah, for me they sound almost the same somehow. I theoretically can differentiate
between the two, but somehow in Korean, both sounds register as 어

I think this is where it shows that I am Dutch, not an American - an anglophone can
register the different sounds easily (so can I, but I rarely pronounce the -어 as in
American English) - because for me, there's only one o sound in my native language, so
variants kind of merge into o for me. I can hear the difference when you say them,
especially in American contexts, but it's much harder in Korean, where I muddle
everything up.

I remember doing an experiment when I had just started to learn Korean with TTMIK. They had a lesson about 하다 verbs in level 1 and some time after doing the lesson I went back to it and tried to write the verbs down just from listening to the lesson. The result was that I misspelled 오 as 우 several times, I couldn't recognize the 오 sound properly. It took me many hours of listening to fix that and I'm sure you'll get there too. With speaking as well.
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2815 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1086 of 1511
24 January 2014 at 10:11pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
tarvos wrote:
У нас
второй текст!


Мы с помощью Вией Дивой записали еще штуковину!

A second attempt at Russian, different text this time. I followed Via Diva's
pronunciation guide but the text was quite long so I lost track halfway somewhere.

Don't hurry. Read slower, it will be easier for you to pronounce and for others - to
listen.


This might just be the first time you give me a piece of useful advice. However, this
is something I know I'm terrible at - I get this advice from every single teacher, and
I just can't resist working in overdrive - I literally have to be slowed down. So I
hope you'll pardon me if I screw up in this sense.

@Evita: yup, I noticed o sometimes sounds like u for me as well... found it a bit
Swedish-like in the quality. My Korean is still in its beginner shoes though - though I
listened to some Steve Kaufmann snippets today and it wasn't as hard as I thought it
would be to understand the Korean responses. But still hard.
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druckfehler
Triglot
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Germany
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1181 posts - 1912 votes 
Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean
Studies: Persian

 
 Message 1087 of 1511
25 January 2014 at 12:07am | IP Logged 
Koreans actually do sometimes pronounce 오 with an 우 sound, at least in Seoul dialect (which is more or less the standard anyway). E.g. 어제는 영어를 공부했고요 (pronounced as 공부했구요).

I guess those letters at the beginnings of your words just sounded a bit too aspirated to me. It might well be the recording. It's a fine line, anyway. A Korean friend told me that he wondered why foreigners tend to aspirate ㄱ at the beginning of words. I didn't even hear much of a difference in what he was observing :) But it seems that the intervocalic/word beginning distinction advice found in learning materials is not entirely correct.

Edited by druckfehler on 25 January 2014 at 12:09am

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tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2815 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 1088 of 1511
25 January 2014 at 9:50pm | IP Logged 
I actually read somewhere that the length of aspiration is what really differs (aka that
ㄱ is less aspirated than a regular k, i.e. the aspiration is held in for less time, and
then for ㅋ it's more than English aspirated k) . (It's the same in Chinese afaik).
However, the distinction is definitely not one of VOICING, which is why Revised
Romanization makes me want to hit people with sticks.

McCune-Reischauer is much better.


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