Register  Login  Active Topics  Maps  

Tarvos - TAC 2015 Pushkin/Scan

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
1511 messages over 189 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 70 ... 188 189 Next >>
Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3216 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 553 of 1511
10 March 2013 at 6:37pm | IP Logged 
tarvos wrote:
He has a completely different view on language learning than I do. I'm
not a linguist so
I don't care about making a grammar mistake or two. What matters is getting my point
across in a nice and accurate way and if people want to rag on me for that it's their
problem. Luckily there are other people who are more accepting of my view and are more
than happy to listen to me bumble along in Russian and appreciate what I do.

Making a grammar mistake or two and getting your point across in a nice and accurate way
is not your current level of Russian. You usually make much more mistakes than one or two
and not only grammar mistakes. But that's normal. We all make mistakes when we learn
foreign languages (we sometimes make mistakes in our own languages).
Many people on the forum are more than happy with my activity.

1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3216 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 554 of 1511
10 March 2013 at 6:47pm | IP Logged 
Josquin wrote:
@Mark: I don't get your point. Colloquial Russian does teach
morphologically and lexically complex verbs, otherwise the only verbs I knew would be
читать and работать. Often the most common verbs are irregular, that's right, but that
doesn't change the fact that they are very useful to know.

I mean that in general Colloquial Russian teaches Russian as if it was a dead language.
Pronunciation is explained unbelievably badly, grammar is not given in a pragmatic way,
vocabulary is not explained well.

Josquin wrote:
Марк wrote:
I don't think so.

Making grammatical mistakes doesn't make people bad persons.

Have I ever stated the opposite?

Edited by Марк on 10 March 2013 at 7:28pm

1 person has voted this message useful



Josquin
Heptaglot
Senior Member
Germany
Joined 3004 days ago

2266 posts - 3992 votes 
Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish
Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian

 
 Message 555 of 1511
10 March 2013 at 7:05pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
I mean that in general Colloquial Russian teaches Russian as if it was a dead language.
Pronunciation is explained unbelievably badly, grammar is not given in a pragmatic way,
vocabulary is not explained well.

I don't know where you get your information from, but in fact Colloquial Russian is one of the better courses that are out there. I must admit the Langenscheidt course I used before was organized better, but when dealing with self-teaching courses one always has to accept some shortcomings. Which alternative would you propose?

Марк wrote:
Josquin wrote:
Making grammatical mistakes doesn't make people bad persons.

Have I ever stated the opposite?

No, but as you have been told several times by several people, your comments can be a bit unfriendly. For my part, I can't complain, but your personal feud with tarvos is a bit petty. He's obviously able of getting his point across in oral conversation. If that's what he wants, you shouldn't get upset about his mistakes in written Russian. And thanking God that tarvos hasn't studied any Russian lately is absolutely impolite and offensive.

Edited by Josquin on 10 March 2013 at 7:31pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2867 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 556 of 1511
10 March 2013 at 8:10pm | IP Logged 
Марк wrote:
[/QUOTE]

Making a grammar mistake or two and getting your point across in a nice and accurate
way
is not your current level of Russian. You usually make much more mistakes than one or
two
and not only grammar mistakes. But that's normal. We all make mistakes when we learn
foreign languages (we sometimes make mistakes in our own languages).
Many people on the forum are more than happy with my activity.
[/QUOTE]

Probably not. But then there are five grammar mistakes and an idiomatic misuse of a
phrase, so what. I haven't stated perfection in Russian, just that I can understand and
have a discussion, if I do it with 10 or 20 mistakes is really not a big deal to me.
And for the record, you are THE ONLY PERSON EVER who complains about not understanding
me. Nobody else does. People have consistently told me over the last few months that
it's been good. That my Russian is flawed is no secret (and that my ability to write a
long essay in Russian is pretty much nonexistent is also a given) but then again I only
write here to give short updates in context about what I've been doing.

My focus is on real colloquial spoken Russian because I am going to travel in Russia in
the summer (where I'll need to focus on the spoken language) and on writing in
informal, Facebook/VKontakte style environments. I occasionally also write letters, but
they are not fancy and personal correspondence which is also the area I'm most familiar
with, so it's easy for me to do.

I'm also, let me phrase this properly so we get this clear: intentionally working
with a tutor to improve my Russian in both the spoken and the grammatical areas of the
language, who is being more than consistent in helping me get the language right and
aiding me in finding my mistakes. But even she admits to having a very easy time
communicating with me and thinks I am easy to work with.
I am not making shit up,
I am going on feedback of other people who I have intentionally hired to do this job
to help me speak better Russian.


I have regular contact with Russians who are more than happy to converse with me and
are more than happy to talk to me despite my mistakes, and who seem to have no trouble
understanding me and aiding me when I say something that is incorrect or
incomprehensible.


If my level is not perfection or incomprehensible to you because you take literally
every single grammar mistake ever out of context, then that is your problem.
You are the only one in this thread complaining about the unintelligiblity of my
Russian, in fact, you are the only person on the PLANET doing so. And no one is more
critical towards my Russian than I am myself and the tens of people who I have
communicated with succesfully purely in Russian corroborate this fact.


To then denigrate my Russian isn't not only plain wrong, it's pathetic, low, and
unworthy of someone who is claming "to help". This is patently NOT how you learn a
language, and trust me, I've been in the positions where I've had to make to with
improper use of language and find a way out multiple times in many more languages than
in Russian only. If you want to be snide towards people who do not share your language
philosophy, this is not the place for it. If you want to correct grammar and be
pedantic for the sake of it, this is not the place for it. If you want to be plain rude
and impolite to somebody DOING THEIR BEST TO LEARN YOUR LANGUAGE AND ADAPT TO YOUR
RULES this is not the place for it.

I have asked you dozens of times to be polite in this thread. Not once, not twice,
tens. My patience with you is over and I am done arguing with you in this thread. If
you want to belittle someone's efforts go do it somewhere else, I have no intention
with arguing you any more on the internet. This is my log, this is where I describe my
experiences of language learning and you can be polite and offer corrections (see what
jeff does for my Swedish or what Josquin does for my German, or even what Vermillion
has done for my French), or you can converse about my experiences, or anything under
the sun, but I won't have this nonsense in my log.

Full stop.
5 persons have voted this message useful



tarvos
Super Polyglot
Winner TAC 2012
Senior Member
China
likeapolyglot.wordpr
Joined 2867 days ago

5310 posts - 9398 votes 
Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans
Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish

 
 Message 557 of 1511
11 March 2013 at 12:39am | IP Logged 
Dealing with Mark's pettiness aside, I have studied some languages today, mainly Breton
(which was not very encouraging) and Romanian (which was). My Breton is good in
translation (although I make a fair few mistakes with word order and verb conjugation),
but I tried listening to the radio this Saturday and although I can make out plenty of
words I cannot follow a conversation, so that will have to be improved.

Romanian is another story. I today tried to have a chat with a Romanian friend of mine
and it's moderately possible for me to understand, in writing, what she's saying
(unless she's talking about pharmacology in which case I of course don't stand a
whelk's chance in a supernova). I fully believe in Benny's approach of talking to
people and learning by doing, and it's the most motivating thing for me. Fortunately I
have one person at least to speak Romanian to, so that will work. And even with my
shitty Romanian grammar I can make myself understood somehow (even though it sounds
barbaric).

I guess the Romanian literature greats would roll in their grave at my manhandling of
the language, but then again, I rather like manhandling languages because that means I
am handling them in the first place. Just like I moderately abuse Russian. But that's
okay, it's all a consensual game and Russian is a fierce dominatrix, Romanian is a bit
more gentle :)

Corrections for Mark: My Breton is so bad I should never be allowed to write it, of
course. It is even worse than my Russian. Can you believe that???? ;)))


Edited by tarvos on 11 March 2013 at 12:40am

2 persons have voted this message useful



renaissancemedi
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
Greece
Joined 2518 days ago

941 posts - 1308 votes 
Speaks: Greek*, Ancient Greek*, EnglishC2
Studies: French, Russian, Turkish, Modern Hebrew

 
 Message 558 of 1511
11 March 2013 at 8:18am | IP Logged 
Keep up the good work Tavros. Don't worry about sounding barbaric, it's a step towards civilized. I have the same attitude as you, trying, writing, speaking, using the language even with flaws, because one day you wake up and "suddenly" you speak well. That's why I always encourage people who learn greek to write and speak alot, despite errors. Errors of grammar and spelling can be fixed. Problems of attitude, that's a bit more tricky...


1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3216 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 559 of 1511
11 March 2013 at 10:37am | IP Logged 
Evita wrote:
Hey tarvos,

I thought I could offer you some corrections on your Russian text. I'm not a native
Russian speaker and in fact I don't know Russian grammar that well (I only learned it
at school and you know how useless that can be) but I learned Russian from watching TV
and a little bit of immersion so I can often tell when something sounds wrong even if I
don't know the reason why exactly it is wrong. So here are a few things:

tarvos wrote:
Русский язык

Я закончился урок 12 в Коллоквиале сегоня. Я тоже делал урок 72 (пассив) и 23 (актив) в
Ассимиле. Конечно, все слова которые я не уже знал, я печатал их в Анки. Мне кажется,
что у меня теперь вольше словарный сапас. Я нашёл, что русский язык не становится проще
пока прогрессирует с нем. я тоже считаю что мне надо говорить более и более, и тоже мне
нужно поехать в Россию на делать прогружение.

Я не знаю как можно преуспевать. Мои плани не конкретие, и я не подумал как я бы
сделал, чтобы лучше говорить. Одна из моих подруг мне сказали, что она не сомневается,
что я справюсь. А есть нет проблем быть медленно.

Практиковать, практиковатль, практиковать. Только это поможет мне. Я надеюсь что на
год, я умею свободно гоборить по-русски.




пока прогрессирует с нем - I'm not sure what you wanted to say here but this doesn't
sound right. In any case, the 'с' should be 'в'.

мне нужно поехать в Россию на делать прогружение - if you want to specify the reason
you need to go to Russia you should use 'чтобы'. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by
'прогружение' (is that even a real word?) but I'm quite sure it's wrong here.

Я не знаю как можно преуспевать - я не знаю, как мне все [это] успеть (if you wanted to
say 'I don't know how to manage to do all this')

я не подумал как я бы сделал, чтобы лучше говорить - argh, this is frustrating. I know
this is wrong but I don't know how to fix it. I'm not even sure what you wanted to say
here. One correct thing to say would be this: я еще не думал много о том, как улучшить
мою способность говорить по-русски.

А есть нет проблем быть медленно - this doesn't make any sense


на год - this is wrong. If you want to say 'in a year' you should say 'через год'.

1 person has voted this message useful



Марк
Senior Member
Russian Federation
Joined 3216 days ago

2096 posts - 2972 votes 
Speaks: Russian*

 
 Message 560 of 1511
11 March 2013 at 10:43am | IP Logged 
s0fist wrote:


"углушить" : This word should not be here. I can't even guess what you were trying to
say.

Но так не думаю. -> This means "I don't think so/like that." And it's not clear what you
are referring to. If you wanted to say "I try not to think like that or I try not to
think about that" you should probably say "Я стараюсь так не думать" или "Я стараюсь об
этом не думать".




1 person has voted this message useful



This discussion contains 1511 messages over 189 pages: << Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189  Next >>


Post ReplyPost New Topic Printable version Printable version

You cannot post new topics in this forum - You cannot reply to topics in this forum - You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum - You cannot create polls in this forum - You cannot vote in polls in this forum


This page was generated in 5.2188 seconds.


DHTML Menu By Milonic JavaScript
Copyright 2019 FX Micheloud - All rights reserved
No part of this website may be copied by any means without my written authorization.