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Most annoying: beginning, middle or end?

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tarvos
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 Message 25 of 49
30 December 2013 at 2:17pm | IP Logged 
For me the most annoying level is intermediate as well - you're good but never good
enough. Basically what annoys me is mistakes that I know I don't have to make, but make
anyway (like gender mistakes in French writing, which I can avoid).

But it's made up for by the awesome moments. Because for me, languages are for use with
people. So when I explain something in Russian or Romanian, those moments are sacred.
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culebrilla
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 Message 26 of 49
30 December 2013 at 2:29pm | IP Logged 
Advanced. You barely improve with many hours of work. You are actually functional but your progress is almost imperceptible.
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Stelle
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 Message 27 of 49
30 December 2013 at 3:51pm | IP Logged 
I didn't love very early intermediate, when I was starting to get bored with "learn to speak" resources, but not yet
able to understand native TV and movies. Now I'm solid intermediate, and I love it - instead of "learning" Spanish, I
can just play with the language and have fun.
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renaissancemedi
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 Message 28 of 49
30 December 2013 at 3:56pm | IP Logged 
All the stages before I can get into native material. Although the very beginning has its charms, everything else is annoying. Mainly because I can't remember things easily at that point, and I am not sure when I use the language correctly.
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Einarr
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 Message 29 of 49
30 December 2013 at 4:21pm | IP Logged 
The Beginning. Yes with a capital letter. I simply loathe, loathe! the beginning,
especially if I have to get to know well the alphabet first. And don't even get me
started on these useless one gazillion pages of introduction, where they "teach" you
how to pronounce the alphabet and the separate sounds via words you're told you needn't
memorize and being the kind of person, who simply cannot accept that one can know too
many words, you end up summarizing them all (just in case you need them later). Not to
mention how awkward it feels if it's only separate syllables which don't mean anything
(this is especially true when doing Hebrew or Korean and using self - teaching
manuals).

I'd much rather get to know the alphabet well and then dig into the texts itself
immersing myself into the recording, just because I found out for myself that when
using a self teaching manual (which is always not in my native language) they might
interpret the sounds in the introduction slightly different than what it really is.
this is quite normal of course, yet I'd much rather hear it myself when one uses a
certain pair of syllables or construction of words within a text, rather than spending
countless hours with virtually now progress studying some put up syllables.

This, however, goes to me only, and I've found out that it works better for me if I do
immerse myself into the text immediately, yet this might not be the case for other
people who'd prefer practicing the syllables up to perfection and then moving onto the
texts. If I were to do that I'd probably end up unable to speak anything but my native
language, just because I'd end up having a nervous breakdown in a couple of days.

Yet, I cannot mention that I've found an exception, when I was studying Danish through
one French manual. It's called Le Danois en vingt lecons and to me is the best
manual I've ever had the pleasure to start off with, and the first to make the
Introduction part worth it and interesting enough.

Intermediate is fine and, dare I say, even enjoyable, just because you've already
cracked a part of the code and you can only go and dig deeper into whatever sources are
to your fancy in order to improve your knowledge. When writing this I have Russian on
my mind. It's been a curious affair between me and Russian, just because up to not so
long ago I was one of the people who grew up surrounded by it, which enabled me to read
ordinary Russian novels and watch TV, yet I was completely hapless when trying to write
it and speak it. So finding up the missing pieces felt like starting off from some
middle ground, just because as I was going through the manuals I could initially
identify what I need to get and implement into my knowledge in order to perfect it.

Advanced is like heaven to me. I remember how 5 years ago I had to take a couple of
particularly life-changing exams. Out of 4, two were on English, so I daren't be up to
scratch. Well I did enjoy every second of digging into the language further and
further. It's something about advanced that gives you that freedom to feel at solid
ground that, for me, provides immense satisfaction. That is complimented by the fact
that whenever you should make a mistake, you're able to analyze it and know how it
appeared and how it can be prevented. It's also funny to spot not only your own
mistakes, but when watching BBC for instance (rarely they do the slip and misspell). :D
I also quite enjoy it when your friends contact you to edit their writings, just
because you can justify their mistakes and show them how to improve it.

So if I have to sum it up, for me advanced makes wonders to my ego, while being a
beginner makes me not even wanting to break the news that I'm undertaking a new
language, just because the embarrassment of not knowing the operational basics of the
language.
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tastyonions
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 Message 30 of 49
30 December 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged 
Pretty simple for me: the more advanced I get in a language, the more I like it and the less frustrated I feel. I don't think I get much of the novelty effect people talk about; at the start actually trying to do anything interesting in the language just feels like riding a child's tricycle up a steep hill. Right now I am wrestling with my inadequacy in Spanish and it gets exhausting, but I know it will be a lot more fun in even just a few months time. :-)
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Zimena
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 Message 31 of 49
30 December 2013 at 5:06pm | IP Logged 
Intermediate is definitely the worst. At that stage, I feel like I run into new obstacles all the time. I can express myself and understand only to some extent, and there's always something I just cannot express no matter how much I try to reformulate it. Either I don't have the vocabulary to say what I would like to say, or I'm unsure about some aspect of grammar, and wondering whether it can really be said in this way/shape/form.

Oh, and let's not forget that at the intermediate stage, you also lack an understanding for the nuances of a language. Even if your dictionary tells you that the word you need is called this or that, you might still wonder whether it's really the most appropriate one to use.

Also, just like some people in this thread, I would also like to add that for me the beginning is an exciting stage rather than an annoying one. The joy of seriously getting into something new is far more important to me than the annoyance of not understanding as much as I would like yet.

Edited by Zimena on 30 December 2013 at 5:09pm

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Luso
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 Message 32 of 49
30 December 2013 at 5:30pm | IP Logged 
I'll just quote myself from another thread, if you don't mind:

Luso wrote:
After having learned several languages in a classroom environment, I've come to a few conclusions about level reaching. Since over the years I've had conversations with fellow classmates, I realised most felt the same way, and the ones who didn't felt lost.

You see, what generally happens is that A and C levels are easy. Yes, you read it right. It's the B's that are tricky.
The As are easy because you're starting, you're motivated, you only have to learn basic stuff (sometimes the script, sometimes not even that), and you can grasp the whole without too much effort.
When you reach the Bs, you really have to progress, since you're supposed to have mastered the basics during the As. But the requirements are usually quite vast and, if you're under the illusion that you grasp the basics, you'll never force yourself to cover all the ground the Bs require.
Once you get to the Cs: ay, there's the rub. Did you really do your job at mastering the Bs? If you did, you'll be ok. Then, the Cs are about fine-tuning and getting to know the really tricky but fun parts. But if you were lazy, prepare for a never-ending nightmare. Trying to find subtle differences when you don't know whether you're supposed to use accusative or dative (or some other intermediate stuff) can hinder your learning pleasure. A lot.


So, the middle tends to be the worst, because it's often underestimated. Of course, if you didn't do your job in the middle, you're bound to pay for it later on.


crafedog wrote:
For the record, the most common level to quit learning a language is at an upper-intermediate stage (there's quite a bit of research on this).

Very interesting.

Edited by Luso on 30 December 2013 at 5:37pm



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