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Most difficult languages | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| onebir Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 3474 days ago 484 posts - 26 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 25 of 96 01 January 2007 at 6:27am | IP Logged | ||
I was reading somewhere else that Farsi grammar is pretty simple. It might have been the Columbia Uni Press Online Encyclopedia quoted here. Does anyone know what makes it difficult? | |||
| Alijsh Tetraglot Senior Member Iran jahanshiri.ir/ Joined 2933 days ago 149 posts - 14 votes 1 sounds Speaks: Persian*, Spanish, French, English Studies: German, Italian | Message 26 of 96 01 January 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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The grammar of Persian is not hard but the difficulty is set with everything included. The writing system as well as vocabulary which is entirely different. I understand it well because learning English is also hard for Persian speakers. Edited by Alijsh on 01 January 2007 at 1:34pm | |||
| leosmith Octoglot Senior Member United States polydog.org Joined 2861 days ago 2352 posts - 1449 votes  Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian, Mandarin, Japanese, Thai, Swahili, French | Message 27 of 96 17 January 2007 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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I vote for Japanese.
Compared to Mandarin, grammar is quite difficult (I consider cultural aspects like politeness levels to be part of grammar). This makes it much harder to speak. Mandarin has tones, so pronunciation is far more difficult, but tones can be mastered quickly in my experience. It's a painful, but pretty quick process. On the surface, the Chinese writing system appears to be harder - 100% Chinese characters (hanzi). Japanese has about 50% Chinese characters (kanji). The other syllabary is very simple. But the way Japanese uses the chinese characters is much more complicated. By this I mean that there are almost always at least 2 pronunciations for each kanji. This is the thing that tips the scales in favor of Japanese, IMO. Mandarin has both simplified and traditional characters though. which makes learning it significantly harder for foreign learners. But in th end, I choose Japanese for the above reasons. Cantonese probably comes close, with more tones, but not double characters (I think). Arabic, I haven't a clue. As someone mentioned, Japanese have a terribly difficult time learning Chinese. Mainly because of tones. I've heard Japanese has the narrowest range of sounds of any major language. They have trouble breaking out of that range. Reading and writing Chinese is not so difficult for them, I hear. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 3352 days ago 469 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 28 of 96 17 January 2007 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thats interesting, I've met quite a few japanese with really kicking
mandarin. Its the koreans (at least in china) that are infamous for having really bad chinese. | |||
| Captain Haddock Diglot Senior Member Japan kanjicabinet.tumblr. Joined 3079 days ago 2283 posts - 539 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, Korean, Ancient Greek | Message 29 of 96 18 January 2007 at 1:18am | IP Logged | ||
It's about the same as what Spanish has, I think. (16 or 17 consonants, 5 vowels) Having similar phonology to the target language is probably more significant than having a wide range of sounds in your native language. Japanese have as much trouble with Mandarin tones as anyone from a non-tonal background, but at least Japanese has pitch accent. Like Solidsnake notes, there are quite a few Japanese who speak good Mandarin (even if the accent isn't usually great). At any rate, mastering Japanese is hard, but the fairly simple phonetics give you an easier time at the beginning. The early stages of Arabic will be tougher with all those unusual consonants, I think. Edited by Captain Haddock on 18 January 2007 at 1:19am | |||
| solidsnake Diglot Senior Member China Joined 3352 days ago 469 posts - 21 votes Speaks: English*, Mandarin | Message 30 of 96 18 January 2007 at 5:50am | IP Logged | ||
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As far cultural stereotyping goes, i think native japanese learn languages
like mandarin faster than native koreans from what i saw in china, is due to japanese tending to be more open and speaking more freely with chinese friends, whereas koreans tend to stick together speaking korean with their peers. And in fact, its this aspect exactly that would seem to make korean one of the most difficult languages to master. FWIW i would never say i thought another person's language skills were kicking if they had a bad accent. Accent, flow and phrasing are how I really define what makes someone facile in a language. | |||
| lady_skywalker Triglot Senior Member Netherlands aspiringpolyglotblog Joined 3201 days ago 909 posts - 48 votes Speaks: Spanish, English*, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, French, Dutch, Italian | Message 31 of 96 18 January 2007 at 6:36am | IP Logged | ||
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I didn't realise Koreans had such a bad reputation for learning Mandarin. I had quite a few Korean housewives in my Chinese classes in Tianjin and I think they were the most enthusiastic students there! Having said that, they never did mingle much with non-Koreans outside of class and they had very strong accents when speaking Mandarin.
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| leosmith Octoglot Senior Member United States polydog.org Joined 2861 days ago 2352 posts - 1449 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Russian, Mandarin, Japanese, Thai, Swahili, French | Message 32 of 96 18 January 2007 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | ||
Really? Well, you're probably right. I've just started studying Mandarin, and have never been to China. I based my theory on several Japanese friends who have tried, or are trying, to learn Mandarin. I also found the comments about Koreans interesting - they are so incredibly good at learning Japanese. Wonder why they're not as good at Chinese? |
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