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| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4690 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 1017 of 1317 19 May 2014 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
I have found French to be much easier than German to learn, apart from the regularity of German spelling and pronunciation. There are more cognates with French and the verb system is closer to English than the German verb system. Just compare Michel Thomas' French course and his German course. The French course seems like a walk in the park by comparison, but that's not because he teaches it better. It's because German verbs are harder for an English speaker to learn. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| patrickwilken Senior Member Germany radiant-flux.net Joined 4314 days ago 1546 posts - 3200 votes Studies: German | Message 1018 of 1317 19 May 2014 at 5:49pm | IP Logged | |||||
That's interesting. I have my doubts that French really is so much easier, but I don't want to get into a side discussion on EMK's personal blog. Certainly the FSI data suggests that learning French (at least to B2) is about 25% faster. I am not convinced this discount continues to apply as you go up to C1 and C2 though. I think sometimes the Germanic origins of many words in English get a bit of a bad rap (the old 'English is a Germanic language with a Romance vocabulary'), but if you check out this draft rewrite in Anglish it's quite understandable without the Romance/Greek cognates, which gives you an idea how much English vocabulary comes from German: Three Little Pigs Or this story by HP Lovecraft : http://anglish.wikia.com/wiki/The_Fearful_Old_Man It would be interesting to see a similar rewrite without the German origins. Is there such a thing as Romish (pure Romance English)? Would that even be understandable? Anyway to put things in perspective which I think we both agree: For English speakers German or French are child's play compared to pretty much any other language (Russian, Japanese, Swahili, Hindi etc) for which I am eternally grateful. But, as I said, I feel bad starting a side discussion on EMK's personal blog, so unless he wants to continue the discussion we should probably find another venue. Edited by patrickwilken on 19 May 2014 at 6:05pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5172 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 1019 of 1317 19 May 2014 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | |||||
This is a huge point. There's an over-intellectualization of French that contributes to snobbery/intimidation among learner communities that really ought to be broken down. That was really the most enjoyable thing about living in Paris for almost two years - discovering the diversity. I taught English to computer geeks, went to improv shows and competitions, went to B-movie nights at an indie cinema, went to celtic music/dancing nights and I met a wide range of people. Even at a party attended exclusively by people who had their PhDs/were getting their PhDs in Economics and related fields, the topic of conversation was the Miss France contest. Many of the most popular movies in France never get distributed in foreign cinemas and on DVD in the international market. And there's plenty of cheesy reality TV and the like that French people will try to discourage you from watching because it doesn't show off high-intellect, priviledged- dialect French. Towards the end of my stay I thought about doing a project of interviews with French people with different interests and backgrounds to give a more diverse view of French culture (and to provide the learning community with more real life audio with transcripts). I suppose that's something I could still do... One thing I hate more than anything is when an American/British expat writer publishes an article or a book for the Anglophone audience about their experience living in France. They almost always live in very rich areas of Paris (around Jardin du Luxembourg or in the XVIe) and run in very exclusive circles made up of diplomats, politicians, etc. Their observations are based completely in a world that doesn't exist anymore for the vast majority of the French and gives Anglophones an image of France that's very much trapped in the 20s/50s-60s. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5313 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 1020 of 1317 25 May 2014 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
My personal loathing is reserved for a genre of self-help books with the theme "Oh, the French are so much classier than you will ever be." These are mostly aimed at women, and they have titles like French Women Don't Get Fat and Bringing Up Bébé. I can't complain about any specific book—I've only flipped through a couple of these—but every time I glance at the content, I just cringe. Such ridiculous stereotypes. It's like reading a book titled "The Wisdom of Californian Child Rearing" or "Canadian Men Stay Buff (What With All That Trapping and Tree-Cutting)". People are people. French culture is made of the same basic ingredients as US culture, and only the proportions and combinations differ. For example, many French people love good food, but San Francisco foodies are probably even more obsessed. France is more liberal than the US, but it has all the same types of conservatives. Some French parents are amazing; a few appear to rely on sarcasm and Ferme ta gueule. The French almost never surprise me in big ways; it's only the little stuff that's disconcertingly weird. A fun conversation. I ran into retired French teacher at an outdoor Meetup the other day, and we had a great conversation in French. She was a little rusty, but she had worked with quite a few bilingual students from Quebec back in the day. However, it didn't take me long to realize that I was slowing down my speech, enunciating clearly, and taking time to explain occasional bits of vocabulary. So for all that I occasionally gripe about my inability to keep up with native French speakers—especially in a professional context—I actually do pretty well. Non-native French teachers, for example, are pretty fun to chat with. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| napoleon Tetraglot Senior Member India Joined 4797 days ago 543 posts - 874 votes Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu Studies: French, Arabic (Written) | Message 1021 of 1317 25 May 2014 at 5:34pm | IP Logged | |||||
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French self-help books aren't any better.
I read "La femme parfaite est une connasse" because I saw it in the Amazon meillures ventes list. It was full of stereotypes. Worse. American stereotypes that have gone stale. It was a quick read. But I wouldn't read it again. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| tastyonions Triglot Senior Member United States goo.gl/UIdChYRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4446 days ago 1044 posts - 1823 votes Speaks: English*, French, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 1022 of 1317 25 May 2014 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I love both sides of French. My time with the language is usually shared between France Inter / France Culture and YouTube videos of adolescent-level humor.
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| sctroyenne Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5172 days ago 739 posts - 1312 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Irish | Message 1023 of 1317 25 May 2014 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
These are bad too. Granted, there are definitely differences between French and American diets, food policy, and general ways of looking at food that merit being looked at but when "French Women Don't Get Fat" claimed that French women don't diet or obsess over their weight, I just said, "Are you kidding me?!" In other news, I've been marathoning some delightfully trashy French scripted reality television: Face au doute and La jour où tout a basculé. Edited by sctroyenne on 25 May 2014 at 11:35pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4690 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 1024 of 1317 26 May 2014 at 6:28am | IP Logged | |||||
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I like both sides of French culture as well. Against the highbrow notions of what French and France are, you have the power of McDo's. There are two interesting facts about McDonald's in France: 1. it is the second most profitable country for the chain, and 2. it is the largest private employer in France.
Here's an article from the Telegraph a couple of years ago: Le Big Mac has conquered La Belle France And one from Slate: How McDonald's Conquered France 1 person has voted this message useful |
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