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emk
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 3695 days ago

2615 posts - 8805 votes 
Speaks: English*, FrenchB2
Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 1113 of 1317
31 July 2014 at 6:08pm | IP Logged 
napoleon wrote:
Tu es le prophète de tous qui apprennent la langue française ici et ton log est l'autel. De temps en temps, on se trouve ici, pour te rendre hommage et te demander des conseils. :)

Merci, c'est très gentil, mais ça me fait peur un peu, même comme une blague. Mon français est loin d'être parfait.

napoleon wrote:
Le problème se pose quand je tente les séries qui s'emploient la langue officieuse. Les séries comme "Kaboul Kitchen" ou "Les hommes de l'ombre" sont vraiment difficile de comprendre.
Est-ce que tu as une solution?

Pas encore. :-( J'ai du mal aussi avec les films et les séries plus difficiles. Mais ma compréhension s'améliore, au fur et à mesure.

Un jour, j'aimerais créer un logiciel un peu comme LingQ ou readlang, mes pour les vidéos. Je veux les regarder sur le grand écran, mais avec l'abilité de rembobiner, de voir les sous-titres ou de créer une carte pour Anki.

Je pense que un truc comme ça pourrait améliorer ma compréhension rapidement : j'ai utilisé une méthode pareille pour les livres, et je sais déjà que les cartes faites par subs2srs sont très efficaces.

Edited by emk on 31 July 2014 at 6:11pm

2 persons have voted this message useful



sctroyenne
Diglot
Senior Member
United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3554 days ago

739 posts - 1312 votes 
Speaks: English*, French
Studies: Spanish, Irish

 
 Message 1114 of 1317
31 July 2014 at 7:31pm | IP Logged 
Oh! Et je viens de voir sur Amazon.fr que les DVDs de Kaboul Kitchen ont les sous-titres
en français. Si c'est une série que tu aimerais regarder plusieurs fois, ça vaut le coût
peut-être de les commander.
2 persons have voted this message useful



napoleon
Tetraglot
Senior Member
India
Joined 3179 days ago

543 posts - 874 votes 
Speaks: Bengali*, English, Hindi, Urdu
Studies: French, Arabic (Written)

 
 Message 1115 of 1317
31 July 2014 at 7:36pm | IP Logged 
sctroyenne wrote:
Oh! Et je viens de voir sur Amazon.fr que les DVDs de Kaboul Kitchen ont les sous-titres
en français. Si c'est une série que tu aimerais regarder plusieurs fois, ça vaut le coût
peut-être de les commander.

T'as peut-être raison.
Merci à vous deux pour me répondre si vite. :)
1 person has voted this message useful



Arnaud25
Diglot
Senior Member
France
Joined 2005 days ago

129 posts - 234 votes 
Speaks: French*, English
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 1116 of 1317
31 July 2014 at 8:23pm | IP Logged 
Je ferais quand même gaffe avec les séries sous-titrées. Généralement c'est un sous-titrage pour sourds et malentendants qui n'a pas grand chose à voir avec ce qui est réellement dit. On est loin de la transcription exacte, surtout si ça parle vite et de manière familière.
Après à vous de voir...
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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3639 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 1117 of 1317
01 August 2014 at 2:33am | IP Logged 
sctroyenne wrote:
J'ai vu qu'Hypnoweb n'a pas de
transcription pour Kaboul Kitchen ni Les hommes de l'ombre mais il y en a pour
Kaamelott et peut-
être pour autre séries françaises.


Kaamelott est une série je je veux regarder un de ces jours... alors merci beaucoup pour
l'accès aux scripts sctroyenne ! J'espère les utiliser :)
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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3639 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 1118 of 1317
01 August 2014 at 4:07am | IP Logged 
emk wrote:
This isn't a regular language-learning technique, such as shadowing, L-R
or using an SRS deck, but more a "meta-technique": A technique that helps you use other
techniques more consistently. If you already have adequate self-discipline, this story
probably won't interest you. But if you tend to get half-way through a project and then
move on to something else, you might find these tricks useful.

I was inspired by two stories:
  1. Steve Pavlina's
    30 days to
    success
  2. secret">The Seinfeld calendar
I studied several foreign languages in
school, with predictably poor results, and tried to learn Italian on my own. When I
studied Italian, I made it about 2 weeks into the course, and wound up with a nice
accent and a ~100-word vocabulary. This was useful when traveling, but a bit limiting.
My study skills, in other words, were well-suited to the length of a school term, but I
never really had the sheer endurance required to learn a second language.

One day, however, my wife asked me to learn French. It's her native tongue, and we had
already decided to raise our children to be bilingual. I was not an ideal candidate for
success: I was already past the age of 30, and I had never actually learned a foreign
language.

But I did have some real motivation, and I had recently read the two articles
mentioned above. So I decided to give it a shot. I marked out 30 days on my calendar,
and I promised to myself that I would study an Assimil lesson every day. I listened to
each lesson about 10 times (until it clicked), and I did the exercises. This took about
20 minutes.

The first 30 days were hard: I wanted to skip a day, here and there. But I knew that if
I skipped a day, I could skip two, and that if I could skip two days, I could skip a
week. (And after that, the project would be doomed.) It wasn't easy to study French
every day: Once or twice I procrastinated until 2am before buckling down and doing the
lesson. But in the end, I told myself, "Anybody can make it through 30 days, right? And
if I decide that this is too much work, I can quit after my 30 days are up. But
I'm not allowed to quit now."

At the end of 30 days, I had made some gains. French pronunciation and spelling, which
had always been miserably opaque to me, were starting to make sense. I was
understanding increasingly complex Assimil lessons. And if I wanted to talk with my
wife, I could produce a few simple sentences here and there. I was ecstatic, and I
decided to sign up for another 30 days.

When I started the active wave on day 50, my study time went up to 40 minutes a day.
This was pretty grueling, but at day 60, I decided to continue through the end of the
course (call it ~160 days). Once I ran out of Assimil lessons, I started listening to
podcasts and talking with my wife in French.

As of today, it's been a bit more than 2 years, and I've studied French every single
day since I started. I can read popular non-fiction in French, and—if I pick the right
book—I typically miss about 0–6 words per page. I can talk with my wife for an entire
day in French, and I'm just starting to be able to understand the news on RFI. All
told, I had probably put in less than 350 hours of study as of a few months ago. This
has lately increased, because I now learn 20 SRS cards every day, and I'm spending more
time with native materials.

So enough of the biography. :-) Here are some tips based on my experience:

  1. Start with a simple but well-defined goal. It should be big enough to be
    significant, but small enough that you can actually follow through. Listening to a
    single Assimil lesson 8–12 times is great. "Study some French" is not a concrete enough
    goal, at least at first, and "learn 100 words new words in an SRS deck" is too much to
    keep up for long.

  2. You may find it more pleasant to "get it out of the way" first thing every morning,
    after you wake up, or to set aside a fixed time every day.

  3. If you have a miserable, depressing winter and you're starting to burn out, you
    can set goals like "Study some French every day". You'll keep a small amount of
    momentum, and you'll probably prevent the decay of your skills. But you'll do less and
    less as time passes, and eventually you'll need to recommit to a bigger and more
    concrete goal.

  4. If you commit to an overly large goal, you'll make enormous gains, but you'll drive
    yourself nuts, and possibly run screaming into the woods. Save this kind of crazy
    experimentation until later in the process.

There's a real power to doing something every single day, because you can't postpone
it, you can't let the rest of your life interfere with it, and you have to find the
time every single day. And having a concrete rule makes it easier, because you don't
have to waste any time thinking up excuses.

If, like me, you're motivated to learn a foreign language—but fear that you'll get
bored and give up—then you might want to read the two blog posts I linked to above, and
consider a 30-day trial. :-)


I feel it's worthwhile to bring this old post to the forefront of your language log. I
stumbled across, well actually I went to an earlier page of your log from a couple of
years ago emk, by accident, which in turn lead me on to an even earlier post (the one
quoted above). This is motivating for me as i"m going through a lower motivation period
in which my Dutch is suffering slightly, fortunately my French isn't. This situation is
nothing compared to my old days of procrastination in which 1 day would turn to six
months or more.

Anyway this quoted post of yours helps to reaffirm my goals and realise the power in
doing something every day. It also shows me you have worked hard and consistently at
your goal, and are achieving it with every day of French exposure/learning. Although I
know this will come off a little cheesy... I'm certainly aiming to follow in your
footsteps as are many other people on this forum I'm sure- My following in your
footsteps doesn't exactly entail the same approach of course but definitely contains
the same themes of remaining committed and working at it every day with all languages
that I choose to study (currently 2). Tnx again emk :)
4 persons have voted this message useful



AmyinBrooklyn
Senior Member
United States
Joined 2214 days ago

87 posts - 122 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 1119 of 1317
01 August 2014 at 4:41am | IP Logged 
I just wanted to second PeterMollenburg and offer my thanks as well. This has proven to be the best advice I've received. I'm ten months in and haven't missed a single day of study. I'm still not where I want to be, but I'm proud of how far I've come and of my commitment. Thank you, emk!
2 persons have voted this message useful





emk
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 3695 days ago

2615 posts - 8805 votes 
Speaks: English*, FrenchB2
Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 1120 of 1317
06 August 2014 at 10:59pm | IP Logged 
Thank you for your kind words, PeterMolleburg and AmyinBrooklyn. I'm glad my post was useful to you.

If anybody is interested in other old articles that might be helpful to somebody, I've added a list at the bottom of the first post in my log. This includes the "30 days" post, the "cheating & consolidating" post, information about how I'm tackling Egyptian, and what I currently believe about adult vs. child learners. Oh yeah, and a bunch of French native media. I have no idea whether anybody else will find these posts useful, but at least they're a lot less verbose than reading my whole log. :-)


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