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The English Generic ’You’ | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5376 days ago 938 posts - 1839 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 1 of 22 23 February 2012 at 6:55pm | IP Logged |
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What do people think of the use of the generic 'you' in English to mean 'a generic
multitude of people' (similar to 'on' in French or 'mann' in German). I understand it is a relatively recent development in English and that it has replaced the (now) more stilted 'one'. I have always used the generic 'you' in speaking, but having recently started seeing it in internet English I get a sense of how confusing it can be if you don't have the context markers of live speech. Personally, I am not a prescriptive type - a large proportion of native speakers use it and that is how language works - but, although I will continue to use it in speech, I think I will avoid it in writing. Any thoughts? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Superking Diglot Groupie United States polyglutwastaken.blo Joined 6454 days ago 87 posts - 194 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Mandarin | Message 2 of 22 23 February 2012 at 7:40pm | IP Logged |
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I consider it universally acceptable in informal writing and speech. The only place it would strike me as odd would be in a very formal register, but separating formal and informal registers isn't an issue of prescriptivism in my opinion, it's just knowing when and where things should be said, and how.
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| Kyle Corrie Senior Member United States Joined 4640 days ago 175 posts - 464 votes | Message 3 of 22 24 February 2012 at 12:30am | IP Logged |
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I would imagine that it would make it even easier for a learner of English. Instead of
thinking and differentiating between different pronouns they can simply use 'you' and leave it up to the listener to make the distinction. Then on the other side - when it comes to listening I don't imagine it would be any more difficult for a learner of English to make the distinction between the usage of 'you' than it would be for a learner of another language learning the opposite. Then again, you did kind of mess up the distinction between the pronoun 'man' and the noun 'Mann'. So who knows? Perhaps a non-native could weigh-in. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| geoffw Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4499 days ago 1134 posts - 1865 votes Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian | Message 4 of 22 24 February 2012 at 12:47am | IP Logged |
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It is indeed curious that in a language such as ours, where we have long suffered from an embarrassing shortage of prounoun forms, we have made the collective decision to continue eliminating them.
I always found it terribly frustrating that English has no good way of expressing: any 1st person plural inclusive of the person(s) you're addressing, vs. exclusive or 3rd person singular possessive that isn't tied to gender ("their" just doesn't cut it--for me, because I'm a prescriptivist, but also because it overlaps with 3rd person plural) It was only much later in life that I discovered that some languages don't suffer from same these difficulties. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5376 days ago 938 posts - 1839 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 5 of 22 24 February 2012 at 10:49am | IP Logged |
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Thanks on the man/mann mistake.
As to it being confusing, I have often had slight flare ups with German colleagues who have mistaken the generic 'you' for the second person singular and have taken it personally (as in I say: 'you wouldn't do that' meaning 'one wouldn't do that' or 'no-one would do that' - they say indignantly 'How can you even think that I would do that'). I also discussed this with a Polish colleague who says that it confuses her and that her husband has picked up the generic 'you' from English and has started using it in Polish to even greater confusion. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| fiziwig Senior Member United States Joined 4676 days ago 297 posts - 618 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 22 26 February 2012 at 4:15pm | IP Logged |
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What about the use of "they" for he/she when gender is not specified?
If a person wants to get to New York they need to catch the train. When someone goes to the zoo they often like to feed the elephants. Whoever wins the tournament will have to be better than their opponents. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| mikonai Diglot Senior Member United States weirdnamewriting.bloRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4740 days ago 178 posts - 281 votes Speaks: English*, Italian Studies: Swahili, German | Message 7 of 22 26 February 2012 at 8:26pm | IP Logged |
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In my opinion "you" is perfectly fine, except for in cases where you think it might
cause some confusion (as in the case of your German colleagues), in which case most people can clarify automatically "in general, not you specifically." English's range of meanings for the same word can be a little confusing, whether it's personal or impersonal, singular or plural. For some reason I'm not a fan of using "one" for the impersonal, I suppose because it sounds so formal, but I've had teachers that require it, since in the classroom they're technically teaching us "formal" or "academic" English. Somehow it makes for awkward sentences in my head. As for "they," it's a useful word and I use it frequently, but I use it in situations where it's a specific but unknown person, or at least has a specific pronoun: "a person," "anyone," "the applicant," "adventurer," etc. I use "you" when I'm not applying another antecedent. "If you want a job you need to go and apply." That doesn't mean that the person I'm talking to needs to go and apply for a job necessarily, and in fact if I'm worried they'll think that (if it's not clear from the context of our conversation, maybe unemployment or something, or if they're defensive about that sort of thing) I need to phrase it differently: "If someone wants a job they need to go and apply." Kind of an odd and backwards set of rules, now that I think about it. The singular pronoun is used when speaking in a wide and general sense, while the plural pronoun is used when there's a specific pronoun antecedent. Shouldn't it be the other way around? 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| TehGarnt Diglot Newbie Germany Joined 4663 days ago 33 posts - 63 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Spanish | Message 8 of 22 05 March 2012 at 11:29pm | IP Logged |
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To me "one" as a pronoun most strongly feels like an honorific way of referring to
oneself, e.g. "one doesn't care for such things", which may be appropriate if you're the queen but terribly self-regarding otherwise. I'm reminded of this letter that appeared in British newspapers a while back; note that "you" is used throughout in the general sense but "one" is used in the last line when stating what is obviously the writer's own opinion. I don't know if that's the origin of the decline in "one" though. Anyone know any theories about that? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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