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Same audio 1000 times? | ||
Tags: Listening | Pronunciation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| slucido Bilingual Diglot Senior Member Spain https://goo.gl/126Yv Joined 6674 days ago 1296 posts - 1781 votes  4 sounds Speaks: Spanish*, Catalan* Studies: English | Message 73 of 83 28 April 2012 at 10:59am | IP Logged | |||||
I think students repeat (chorus) around 2,500 times each of the 30 sentences for three weeks. I am talking about the Olle Kjellin's method. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Random review Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5782 days ago 781 posts - 1310 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German | Message 74 of 83 01 June 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | |||||
I always figured his strong accent was due to learning most of his languages pre-WWII when sound recordings were not easily and cheaply available. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6446 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 75 of 83 13 June 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think listening the same audio over and over (1000 times is way too much, let's say a hundred times) can be very beneficial for your speaking. Of course, it has little to do with improving your understanding - for that you need a lot of exposure to different audio material/texts, the more the better, in as little time as possible. But this method may well have its merits, albeit for speaking only. I am willing to do an experiment on myself as soon as I have time.
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| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4827 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 76 of 83 13 June 2012 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | |||||
While I am sure you are correct, Meryl Streep does have the reputation of being good at accents, doesn't she?
Ouch! I'm a fan of the late, great, MT but I have to admit you have a point here. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Matsuemon Newbie United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5944 days ago 2 posts - 2 votes Studies: Japanese, Russian | Message 77 of 83 17 June 2012 at 3:12am | IP Logged | |||||
Hey Wulfgar, it's interesting that you say this, because that's similar to something I've noticed when listening to the same material over and over. Once I've basically got the gist of the story, my brain almost gets in the way because I'm mentally jumping ahead in the story or something, and I think I actually lose focus. So, for me, as far as active listening (sitting there and listening intently), four or five times is all I can really do before I feel my brain is tripping over itself. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6446 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 78 of 83 17 June 2012 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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I think there is something to what A.J. Hoge is talking here
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| MarcoDiAngelo Tetraglot Senior Member Yugoslavia Joined 6446 days ago 208 posts - 345 votes Speaks: Serbian*, English, Spanish, Russian Studies: Thai, Polish | Message 79 of 83 17 June 2012 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | |||||
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Here is what Johan is saying on his website (i used Google Translate):
I always liked learning English. Yet I never really liked English classes. The main reason is the traditional education systems. We listen to CDs where people speak so unnatural, we learn complicated rules of grammar before mastering the basic and we should remember vocabulary lists containing words often unnecessary. Result: students leave school without speaking a foreign language. Even worse: they do not like foreign languages. They find them annoying. But these are not foreign languages which are boring! Schools are boring, education systems are boring, the teachers are boring, but not languages. So what? The first thing is to agree to build on what works. The best example is that of a child. Initially he did not speak or understand any language. And what does he do? Does he learns vocabulary lists? Does he learns the rules of grammar? No, he listens. He does not speak, he is not studying, he listens. And as and when, by dint of hearing the same words and phrases, he understands things. This is the power of repetition. When he feels ready (and not before), he starts talking. Without stress, he makes fun of making mistakes, he repeats what he heard. He first uses very simple words "Dad", "mom" and then begins to build more complex sentences. But still no study. That's how you learned your first language. And it works, it works for everyone. So why try to use an unnatural method to learn foreign languages? Why not use the natural method that allowed you to learn your mother tongue? This is what I propose with authentic French. This is my first advice: do not try to start to talk, relax and listen to a lot of French every day. When you're ready, you can begin to repeat phrases to improve your focus and get used to hear you speak in another language. Finally after a while, six months to one year, you will begin to talk automatically, without thinking. After passing this first stage, you will want you even better. And here comes my second tip: when you reach a certain level, hear and read much by focusing on the work of one or two people. Choose someone that you like and read everything you find on it. His writings, podcasts, everything. Why? Because each person uses particular words and phrases. This allows you to quickly find (thanks to the power of repetition) and then learn to understand the unknown words and phrases from the context. I used this method in German and English and is very effective. The advantage is that it works no matter what your starting level. When I used to English, I had an advanced level. It allowed me to improve my lot in the space of six months. When I used it for German, I was a beginner. With it, I progressed very quickly and I became fluent in about a year (living in Austria which is an advantage). You also follow this method and I guarantee your success: Initially do not talk, listen to a lot of French. relax (about 6 to 12 months *). When you begin to understand, repeat simple sentences and hard (about 3 months *). Start talking. Use simple sentences. Listen and read a lot by focusing on the work of one or two people. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6702 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 80 of 83 18 June 2012 at 11:08am | IP Logged | |||||
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Since this thread was started I have found out that I learn more about correct pronunciations (and the variations thereof!) by listening many times to extremely short snippets and writing everything down in either IPA or some homebrewed notation system. The important thing with this technique is that you write everything down you hear whether or not you understand it and whether or not you had expected something else, and you continue until you have got it right, including pauses, stress, mumble-mumle and half silent syllabes. Period.
I have mostly used language synthesizers for this because then I know exactly what the voice is supposed to say and I can cut each example down to a few seconds and introduce my own phrases and words. However if you prefer real living language then it also works - as long as you can be certain about what the intended words are and you have an easy mechanical way to repeat a passage, interspersed with pauses where you write things down. I wrote a lot about this stuff in my log thread in March and April this year (from around page 360). I 'discovered' the method because I got tired of not knowing exactly how my languages are spoken, and neither extensive listening nor reading about phonology had given me that knowledge. Whether it will help me to get better pronunciations myself is still blowing in the wind - but I can be more confident about the way I speak when I know that at least some native speakers have pronunced something in the same way as I (try to) do. On the other hand I wouldn't dream of doing chorusing (bad vibes: stretched arms, marching, group hysteria and all that), and even shadowing à la prof Arguelles doesn't work for me because I simply stop listening when I talk. Edited by Iversen on 18 June 2012 at 11:23am 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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