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Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6587 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 65 of 76 28 December 2013 at 5:41am | IP Logged |
Jeffers wrote:
-Then you get the people who do L/R and ask if they can count a single book for both. Sigh. |
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No, actually an important stage of LR is reading L1 while listening to L2. And if both are in L2, then the rule is pretty clear that you have to choose one. With L2 text/L3 audio I count both, though. Like nowadays when I listen to Danish or Romanian while reading Italian.
Remember that not everyone cares about cinema. Not everyone is learning big languages. I can disapprove of not liking reading as much as I want, but there are alternatives for those who really don't like books.
More importantly, reading can be done everywhere, so that's exactly why it makes sense to allow audio-only materials too. And I'm pretty sure that everyone understands that listening in the background is not the same thing.
Personally, most of my "movies" are football matches. They also teach you a lot about the TL culture. But I'm not saying everyone should watch them just because I love them.
And nobody is changing anything. Not restricting audio to movies was decided/"approved" before the challenge even began.
Edited by Serpent on 28 December 2013 at 5:44am
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| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4858 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian
| Message 66 of 76 28 December 2013 at 11:34am | IP Logged |
Jeffers wrote:
When did it become a listening / reading challenge? The original challenge was books and films. I know some people decided to "count" listening as watching, but I was never comfortable with that. |
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Personally all my "movies" were movies and TV series. I wrote listening and reading because that seems to reflect the reality of what people did far better than "books" and "movies". I also think it's weird to call 100 pages a "book", to be honest, without taking into account what kind of reading it is. That's why I didn't log my reading the way everyone else did.
Edited by druckfehler on 28 December 2013 at 11:35am
1 person has voted this message useful
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4899 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German
| Message 67 of 76 28 December 2013 at 12:02pm | IP Logged |
Serpent wrote:
And nobody is changing anything. Not restricting audio to movies was decided/"approved" before the challenge even began. |
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Yes it was approved. So were all the additional challenges (writing, conversation, etc). But a couple people are now changing one thing: they are calling it a reading and listening challenge. That is a change.
druckfehler wrote:
Jeffers wrote:
When did it become a listening / reading challenge? The original challenge was books and films. I know some people decided to "count" listening as watching, but I was never comfortable with that. |
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Personally all my "movies" were movies and TV series. I wrote listening and reading because that seems to reflect the reality of what people did far better than "books" and "movies". I also think it's weird to call 100 pages a "book", to be honest, without taking into account what kind of reading it is. That's why I didn't log my reading the way everyone else did. |
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When I looked at the tweets of the people I followed, they all watched films or TV series; I didn't notice any of them listening to anything. But I only looked at people who were also studying French. I suppose you looked at different people.
Anyway, I am not objecting to anyone using audio to "count as" watching, if that's what they really want to do. Everyone has to make their personal choices. I just think a film and book challenge sounds more interesting, and was the original suggestion by Solfrid which appealed so much to so many people.
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emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5522 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map
| Message 68 of 76 28 December 2013 at 12:48pm | IP Logged |
Just a small request: Could we please try to avoid making this awkward for Solfrid? You know she doesn't enjoy having to referee contentious discussions.
Jeffers wrote:
When I looked at the tweets of the people I followed, they all watched films or TV series; I didn't notice any of them listening to anything. But I only looked at people who were also studying French. I suppose you looked at different people. |
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A lot of people have a few podcasts, audiobooks, etc., mixed into the "movie" part of the challenge. For example, here are my non-movie, non-TV entries:
Quote:
01 Nov 2012 : video game walkthrough videos (hey, any excuse to watch french) 300 minutes
01 Feb 2013 : audio extracted from amélie and taxi 45 minutes
19 Feb 2013 : rfi monde and other internet radio 20 minutes
20 Feb 2013 : podcasts, internet radio, television 135 minutes
21 Feb 2013 : place de la toile (podcast) 40 minutes
21 Feb 2013 : le seuil ensanglanté by agatha christie x 2 40 minutes
22 Feb 2013 : le seuil ensanglanté by agatha christie x 2 (again) 40 minutes
22 Feb 2013 : les années lumières 60 minutes
23 Feb 2013 : europe 1 midi 54 minutes
24 Feb 2013 : o positive (podcast) 45 minutes
25 Feb 2013 : place de la toile (podcast) 45 minutes
25 Feb 2013 : les enjeux internationaux (podcast) 13 minutes
25 Feb 2013 : la sélection comics (podcast, recommended) 4 minutes
26 Feb 2013 : le seuil ensanglanté by agatha christie (again) 20 minutes
26 Feb 2013 : les années lumières (podcast) 75 minutes |
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Yes, I really did watch 5 hours of video game walkthroughs on YouTube one afternoon. :-) It was a surprisingly productive exercise. And I actively listened to several podcasts, a short audiobook (several times), and several streaming radio shows. And if you look through other people's history, lots of people have wide variety of things listed under "films". And of course, a huge number of people mostly watched TV instead of movies, myself included, because TV is far cheaper to acquire legally, and because it's often more accessible at the intermediate level.
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6587 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish
| Message 69 of 76 28 December 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged |
Jeffers wrote:
Serpent wrote:
And nobody is changing anything. Not restricting audio to movies was decided/"approved" before the challenge even began. |
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Yes it was approved. So were all the additional challenges (writing, conversation, etc). But a couple people are now changing one thing: they are calling it a reading and listening challenge. That is a change. |
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TBH, I feel much more comfortable with the more inclusive wording. Otherwise there's an assumption that a "default human being" loves movies and is ready to watch 100 in an L2. It makes me feel invisible so I prefer a name that acknowledges I exist. Think of something where you don't match the mainstream public and you'll understand.
But yeah it's very telling that changing the name feels like a more drastic change.
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| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4899 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German
| Message 70 of 76 28 December 2013 at 1:03pm | IP Logged |
emk wrote:
Just a small request: Could we please try to avoid making this awkward for Solfrid? You know she doesn't enjoy having to referee contentious discussions. |
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I agree, and I'm sorry if I diverted the discussion. If I was being contentious it was because I was trying to bring things back to her original idea, which was wonderful in its simplicity.
And every time I plan to post in here, I have started out with the intention of thanking Solfrid and Surrealix for all they did to make this possible. So, here at last....
Thank you thank you thank you thank you!
Merci beaucoup beaucoup!
धन्यवाद और शुक्रिया।
Edited by Jeffers on 28 December 2013 at 1:14pm
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| Emily96 Diglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4418 days ago 270 posts - 342 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: Spanish, Finnish, Latin
| Message 71 of 76 28 December 2013 at 7:58pm | IP Logged |
I've gotten rather sidetracked over the past few months and didn't finish any of my challenges, but I am still
planning to join the next challenge! A lot of great ideas have been proposed in this thread. I agree with the may
start, the star system, and that there should be different numbers for "movies" and "books" (since it takes longer to
read). I'm not sure how i feel about changing "movies" to "listening"... i mostly watched TV and movies, but i do see
how podcasts and audiobooks would work too... I guess i'm open to that!
Mainly i think we need to keep things as simple as possible, but i realize that that may be hard to balance with each
person's language mix and goals. I'm planning to sign up with a few languages with different goals, if possible. Also,
i know that it's supposed to be a challenge for yourself and is not about beating other people, but some people
enjoy the competition and find it motivating (myself included!). So i think it would be nice to have a way to compare
yourself to other people if you want. The table we had was good, although not always clear... the proposition of
comparing A1 with A1 and B2 with B2 is great idea, not sure how that would work exactly, but i'm sure surrealix
could create something wonderful =)
Congratulations to everyone who has succeeded in their challenges, and thanks to everyone who has been involved
in organizing/running it!
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| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5324 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian
| Message 72 of 76 28 December 2013 at 8:22pm | IP Logged |
Jeffers wrote:
emk wrote:
Just a small request: Could we please try to avoid making this awkward for
Solfrid? You know she doesn't enjoy having to referee contentious discussions. |
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I agree, and I'm sorry if I diverted the discussion. If I was being contentious it was because I was trying to
bring things back to her original idea, which was wonderful in its simplicity.
And every time I plan to post in here, I have started out with the intention of thanking Solfrid and Surrealix for
all they did to make this possible. So, here at last....
Thank you thank you thank you thank you!
Merci beaucoup beaucoup!
धन्यवाद और शुक्रिया। |
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You are most welcome. :-) I am thinking hard these days to figure out how we can keep it simple in 2014 yet
try to include some of the various ways people would like to do this.
I realise I will not be able to please everyone, but I want this to be as motivational as possible, so I keep
thinking. I am also still listening to good ideas. :-)
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