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Subjunctive "If I were you"

  Tags: Grammar | English
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98789
Diglot
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Colombia
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 Message 1 of 39
17 July 2012 at 6:31pm | IP Logged 
Good morning,
I have to recognize that I never studied grammar properly and that most of the time when I write in English I use the "logic".
Perhaps, one of the few things I remember of highschool English classes is that thing, the subjunctive, mainly the form: "If I were you".
A few months ago, I was talking with an Indian Spanish learner (I'm a native Spanish speaker) and we suddenly switched to English. We were talking about him and I wrote something like "If I were you ...". He said me I was wrong. He told me I always had to use "was", that "I" never goes with "were". That confused me, as far as I knew "If I were" is right, so... how is it ?
Also, I once read (that) you can omit the "that"... but, my English teacher always corrected me about it, so... how is it ?
(is there any website with those English grammar particularities summarized and well-explained ?)

Thanks,
98789

Edited by 98789 on 17 July 2012 at 6:34pm

1 person has voted this message useful



vermillon
Triglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
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 Message 2 of 39
17 July 2012 at 7:36pm | IP Logged 
I'm sure google would give you plenty of forums that already answered this question, but here it is: the guy you talked to was wrong, and you should indeed say "if I were".
2 persons have voted this message useful





emk
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 Message 3 of 39
17 July 2012 at 7:36pm | IP Logged 
98789 wrote:
Perhaps, one of the few things I remember of highschool English classes is
that thing, the subjunctive, mainly the form: "If I were you".


There are actually two different things which people sometimes call the "subjunctive"
in English:

1. "I demand that he be ready on time."
2. "If I were you, I'd stop goofing off and get ready."

In form (1), we use "be" where we would normally use "is". This works almost exactly
like the subjunctive in French, except it's used very rarely. Form (2) is a bit
trickier. The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language argues that this isn't
really the subjunctive at all, but an irrealis mood which (IIRC) only exists for the
verb "to be".

Form (1) is rare, and form (2) is generally optional. Native speakers say things like
"If I was…" all the time.

Quote:
Also, I once read (that) you can omit the "that"... but, my English teacher
always corrected me about it, so... how is it ?


In a sentence like "The cookies that you baked were delicious," the "that" is
optional.

Edited by emk on 17 July 2012 at 7:38pm

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dampingwire
Bilingual Triglot
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United Kingdom
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 Message 4 of 39
17 July 2012 at 7:40pm | IP Logged 
98789 wrote:
We were talking about him and I wrote something like "If I were you ...".
He said me I was wrong. He told me I always had to use "was", that "I" never goes with
"were".


If I were you I'd keep using the subjunctive.

You were right and he was wrong.

The subjunctive has yet to completely vanish from the English language and I, for one,am
happy to take every opportunity to support it :-)


3 persons have voted this message useful



Chung
Diglot
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 Message 5 of 39
17 July 2012 at 11:16pm | IP Logged 
98789 wrote:
Good morning,
I have to recognize that I never studied grammar properly and that most of the time when I write in English I use the "logic".
Perhaps, one of the few things I remember of highschool English classes is that thing, the subjunctive, mainly the form: "If I were you".
A few months ago, I was talking with an Indian Spanish learner (I'm a native Spanish speaker) and we suddenly switched to English. We were talking about him and I wrote something like "If I were you ...". He said me I was wrong. He told me I always had to use "was", that "I" never goes with "were". That confused me, as far as I knew "If I were" is right, so... how is it ?
Also, I once read (that) you can omit the "that"... but, my English teacher always corrected me about it, so... how is it ?
(is there any website with those English grammar particularities summarized and well-explained ?)

Thanks,
98789


See here for more discussion among us at HTLAL. I use "if I were...", so you can stick to what you learned. Your friend is wrong by saying that one always uses "if I was". A more accurate statement would have been that your Indian friend is the one who always uses "If I was...".

"That" as a relative pronoun is optional but I tend to use it more than other native speakers probably because of the influence of having studied languages where the relative pronoun is mandatory. See here for some detail.
2 persons have voted this message useful



mikonai
Diglot
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 Message 6 of 39
18 July 2012 at 12:40am | IP Logged 
My college English professor explained the English subjunctive this way:

You use "were" (ie, the subjunctive) only when you're expressing something that
cannot happen. To say "If I were you..." expresses something that can never
happen. I can't be you. I also say "if I were a car..." because I can't
be a car. Neither of them are physically possible. But I have to say "if I was
to eat a hamburger for dinner," not "if I were to eat a hamburger for
dinner." Why? Because I technically could run out and get myself a burger. It's
possible. I doubt I'm going to do it, but I could, so I don't use the subjunctive.

The subjunctive is rare in English, and native speakers don't really notice when
they're using it, and maybe because of that it's falling out of usage. I can't quite
decide if it's a travesty or not.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Chung
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 Message 7 of 39
18 July 2012 at 12:55am | IP Logged 
That's interesting. The subjunctive in English among other things covers events that not only are physically impossible (e.g. "if I were a car...") but ones that would be hypothetical in the user's mind (or tacitly desired by the user) (e.g. "if I were rich..."). The latter would be construed as being contrary to fact but this doesn't indicate physical impossibility. (Cf. The English subjunctive: scholarly opinions)
2 persons have voted this message useful



mikonai
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
weirdnamewriting.bloRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4689 days ago

178 posts - 281 votes 
Speaks: English*, Italian
Studies: Swahili, German

 
 Message 8 of 39
18 July 2012 at 4:56pm | IP Logged 
Chung wrote:
That's interesting. The subjunctive in English among other things covers
events that not only are physically impossible (e.g. "if I were a car...") but ones that
would be hypothetical in the user's mind (or tacitly desired by the user) (e.g. "if I
were rich..."). The latter would be construed as being contrary to fact but this doesn't
indicate physical impossibility. (Cf.
The English subjunctive:
scholarly opinions
)


That's a handy link! It's certainly possible that I and my professor are wrong. It may
very well be contrary to fact, or else extreme doubt or impracticality.

Or maybe I'm just making stuff up again. Don't mind me!


2 persons have voted this message useful



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