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Endelig norsk. Igjen. Alltid - TAC 2013

 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log Post Reply
338 messages over 43 pages: 13 4 5 6 7 ... 2 ... 42 43 Next >>
Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
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3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 9 of 338
11 August 2012 at 1:20am | IP Logged 
Like I mentioned briefly, I have yet to be confident about the difference between u and y. According to wikipedia, they're quite similar, as

u - close central rounded
y - close front rounded

I'd like to know which one corresponds more alike to German ü or French u. I always thought it was y, but now I'm in doubt. Since they differ just from one degree of place of articulation, i'd like to hear extra tips. I was told for y you should make sure your tongue is at the front of your mouth, while for u you may let it move backwards a bit. I may be able to hear the difference quite well, I just don't want to keep mistaking one for another when I pronounce them.

As I suppose this has been asked before, it's ok just to link me =D
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pbromide
Bilingual Triglot
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 Message 10 of 338
11 August 2012 at 3:20am | IP Logged 
Took a look at the Wikipedia Norwegian page and if my understanding of IPA is like, then
the following description should be correct:

u - represented by /u/ or /ʉ/. /u/ sounds like French "ou." /ʉ/ sounds like Scottish
"moon."
y - represented by /ʏ/ or /y/. /y/ sounds like French "tu." /ʏ/ is to /I/ what /y/ is to
/i/, if that helps at all. It's the rounded version of the "i" sound in "bit."
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Solfrid Cristin
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Norway
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4143 posts - 8864 votes 
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 Message 11 of 338
11 August 2012 at 9:08am | IP Logged 
I do not function by IPA but what pbromide says looks very right. I would in addition recommend listening as
much as possible to the language, and try to separate the two sounds. Once you can identify them, it is
easier to pronounce them yourself. If you need corrections from a native speaker, get in touch, we could do a
Skype session, and then I am sure you would get this in no time.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
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3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 12 of 338
11 August 2012 at 5:35pm | IP Logged 
I guess I was right all the time. It's the y that corresponds to the French y, and the u is pronounced further back in the mouth, though equally rounded. At least that's how I hear them (I can distinguish both sounds clearly) and that's how I try to pronounce them myself. A friend of mine just tried to lead me into confusion regarding those sounds =D
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
Senior Member
Brazil
Joined 5002 days ago

3335 posts - 4349 votes 
Speaks: Portuguese*, Norwegian, French, English, Italian, Papiamento
Studies: Mandarin, Georgian, Russian

 
 Message 13 of 338
13 August 2012 at 10:01pm | IP Logged 
'Addicted' is no strong word for describing my feelings towards studying Norwegian now. I even took full lessons during the weekend, one on saturday and one on sunday, which I never do for the other languages (the fact that Assimil has shorter lessons in the beginning does help).

Todsy's lesson brings up an interesting statement about a Norwegian verb that happens equally to its Portuguese translation. i'm talking about the verb I]å bli. Lemme quote Assimil:

(...) verbe tres utilisé, [qui] a une signification double- et contradictoire: "devenir", mais aussi "rester". Det blir kaldt = il se met à faire froid (ça devient froid); hun blir syk = elle tombe (devient) malade, mais: bli her! = reste ici!.

In Brazilian Portuguese we'd use the verb ficar, which also means both a changement of state and a permanence in a given location:
"Está ficando frio" = It's getting cold.
"Ela está ficando doente" = She's getting sick.
"Fique aqui!" = Stay here!

(Notice that both Portuguese and English make use of the gerund which neither French nor Norwegian do).

This is the type of interesting facts that make me love learning languages, the whole way as much as the final goal!
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montmorency
Diglot
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United Kingdom
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 Message 14 of 338
13 August 2012 at 11:42pm | IP Logged 
Interesting; Danish (unsurprisingly) appears to work in the same way: "Bliv her!"
and "Det bliver koldt".

I wonder if German is cognate here: "Bleiben Sie hier!"
(although "to become" = "werden", not "bleiben").
May be a coincidence.
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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 15 of 338
14 August 2012 at 12:03am | IP Logged 
Bleiben is definitely a cognate, and unsurprisingly, Norwegians routinely try to use it instead of werden. And
that sounds just as weird as you can imagine :-)
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tarvos
Super Polyglot
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 Message 16 of 338
14 August 2012 at 11:33am | IP Logged 
Yeah, I found the use of att bli in the Scandinavian (Swedish in this case) context to be
weird, as Dutch "blijven" functions as in German.


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