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Endelig norsk. Igjen. Alltid - TAC 2013

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montmorency
Diglot
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United Kingdom
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Speaks: English*, German
Studies: Danish, Welsh

 
 Message 25 of 338
17 August 2012 at 10:46pm | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:

I start to notice that Norwegian has far less silent letters that it seems at a first
glance. Once you know the rules for the most evident cases, there are not many left,
especially inside the words, and you can be confident to pronounce words with given
rules.



You mean Norwegian has silent letters? Just shows how little progress I made in
it! :-)

Quote:

I bet the situation is much worse with Danish, so, I feel a bit relieved.


Yes it's still confusing the hell out of me, although not enough to make me give up. In
fact it's getting slightly better, and I'm sure that in only ten years or so, I'll be
able to order a cup of coffee and understand the reply. :-}


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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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Brazil
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 Message 26 of 338
20 August 2012 at 9:34pm | IP Logged 
Today's lesson intrigued me about the usage of the word 'enda'. I always thought 'ennå' was more common. How's it like actually, both in spoken and written languages?

Some compared etimology:

'Slett' reminds me of 'slight'. Would 'å spøke' be a parallel/deviated form with a common origin with 'to speak'?

"Jeg har slett ikke lyst til å spøke", was that sentence that triggered this.

Jeg er ferdig med den tiende leksjonen!
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Solfrid Cristin
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Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
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Norway
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 Message 27 of 338
20 August 2012 at 9:46pm | IP Logged 
I would say "enda" is far more common, I do not use the word "ennå" at all. But it is possible that this
differs between Norwegian users.
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Ogrim
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France
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 Message 28 of 338
21 August 2012 at 2:24pm | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
Today's lesson intrigued me about the usage of the word 'enda'. I always thought 'ennå' was more common. How's it like actually, both in spoken and written languages?

Some compared etimology:

'Slett' reminds me of 'slight'. Would 'å spøke' be a parallel/deviated form with a common origin with 'to speak'?

"Jeg har slett ikke lyst til å spøke", was that sentence that triggered this.

Jeg er ferdig med den tiende leksjonen!


A lot of Norwegians confound "enda" and "ennå", but according to the dictionary they are two different words; roughly speaking "enda" corresponds to English "even more" while "ennå" means "yet". Example: "Jeg er ennå ikke ferdig med å lese boken" - I have not finished reading the book yet. "Du er enda vakrere enn jeg trodde" - You are even more beautiful than I thought.

As for the verb spøke, I guess it must be of the same origin as the English word "spooky". "Å spøke" has a double meaning in Norwegian, it can be both "to joke" and "to be haunted (by ghosts)".


Edited by Ogrim on 21 August 2012 at 2:25pm

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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 29 of 338
21 August 2012 at 2:50pm | IP Logged 
Ogrim wrote:
[QUOTE=Expugnator] Today's lesson intrigued me about the usage of the word 'enda'. I always thought 'ennå' was more common. How's it like actually, both in spoken and written languages?

QUOTE]

A lot of Norwegians confound "enda" and "ennå", but according to the dictionary they are two different words; roughly speaking "enda" corresponds to English "even more" while "ennå" means "yet".


Actually you have two situations. One in which you can chose between ¨ennå¨ and ¨enda¨, and one in which you have to use ¨enda¨. In both cases ¨enda¨ is correct.

I asked my colleague about his usage. We are both very focused on the Norwegian language, we have between 7-10 years University education each, and we both speak a fairly conservative Norwegian. Neither of us ever uses ¨ennå¨


This is stated in a Norwegian online web site for correct usage:

Ennå - enda
Bokmål | Nynorsk


Du kan bruke både ennå og enda som tidsadverb. Når ordet er gradsadverb eller subjunksjon, skal du bruke enda.



Eksempler:
1.Camilla ble enda sintere. (Enda er gradsadverb.)

2.Han gikk på trening, enda han ikke følte seg frisk. (Enda er subjunksjon.)

Når ordet er tidsadverb, kan du velge fritt mellom enda og ennå.

Eksempler:

1.Fortid: De levde enda/ennå for tre år siden.

2.Nåtid: Sykebilen er enda/ennå ikke kommet.

3.Framtid: Om to uker er det enda/ennå ikke for seint å melde seg på fjellturen til Slogen.


Not confusion. Choice of usage.


Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 21 August 2012 at 2:51pm

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Ogrim
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France
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 Message 30 of 338
21 August 2012 at 3:20pm | IP Logged 
Cristin Solfrid, I stand corrected. However, personally I also speak rather conservative Norwegian, and I always use "ennå", never "enda", as an adverb for time. Now I have not lived in Norway for the last 18 years, so maybe there has been a gradual shift to using ennå instead of enda over that time? Just a guess (and as a digression, I do notice whenever I am back in Norway that the language has indeed evolved over, and people now use manners of speak which did not exist back in the 1980's).
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Solfrid Cristin
Heptaglot
Winner TAC 2011 & 2012
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Norway
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4143 posts - 8864 votes 
Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian
Studies: Russian

 
 Message 31 of 338
21 August 2012 at 3:27pm | IP Logged 
Ogrim wrote:
Cristin Solfrid, I stand corrected. However, personally I also speak rather conservative Norwegian, and I always use "ennå", never "enda", as an adverb for time. Now I have not lived in Norway for the last 18 years, so maybe there has been a gradual shift to using ennå instead of enda over that time? Just a guess (and as a digression, I do notice whenever I am back in Norway that the language has indeed evolved over, and people now use manners of speak which did not exist back in the 1980's).


Since I am 50 years old, and had not even considered using "ennå" until I met my husband in 1994 (he would totally support you on this :-) I doubt that the usage has changed over the most recent time, but it may be a geographical thing. Both my colleague and I have been raised and lived in the area between Larvik, Tønsberg, Oslo and Bærum - It may perhaps be different in different parts of the country? My husband is from Drammen, I do not know if that influences his usage.

One thing that has changed over time is han/ham. I was raised using ham as indirect object, my husband who is a few years younger is unable to make that distinction, and uses only han.
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Expugnator
Hexaglot
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Brazil
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 Message 32 of 338
21 August 2012 at 3:48pm | IP Logged 
Thank you all for this discussion! I've had always heard "ennå" before Assimil, it might just have happened by chance. Here's Postgirobygget's Hva er bedre da:

Mandag lenge til fredag
Bakrus fra lørdag
Må på arbeid og streve
Ennå en uke til ferie
Til vi kan leve
Hva med ferie resten av året

Since they seem to write their lyrics in plain bokmål with very little dialectal influence, I assumed 'ennå' was more common, which it isn't then.

While we're at it, I'd be glad you guys had a look at my paragraph at post #24, previous page. Thanks a lot!!


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