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Endelig norsk. Igjen. Alltid - TAC 2013

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Medulin
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Croatia
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 Message 33 of 338
21 August 2012 at 4:49pm | IP Logged 
ennå is more common on Dagsavisen web pages,
enda is more common on Aftenposten, VG and Dagbladet web pages

BA (Bergensavisen) prefers ennå
BT (Bergens Tidende) prefers enda

;)
So, liberal newspapers prefer ennå, while the conservative ones prefer enda
(Dagbladet being the exception...since it prefers enda, but it's close to AP;
and BT has been swinging to the left side over the years )

From the Norsk Ordbok (the dictionary of Moderate Bokmaal and Riksmaal):

''
ennå el. (især om fortidsforh.) enda tidsadv.
1 hittil: vi har ennå ikke hørt noe
2 fremdeles (på det el. det tidspunkt): han lever ennå / enda (så sent som) i forrige uke; jf. ▶enda A
Etym.: av ▶enn I og▶ nå II; eg. 'ennå i dette øyeblikk'

enda adv. og konj.; jf. ▶ennå
A (som adv.)
1 (som tidsadv.) den gang var han enda et barn / enda (så sent som) i forrige uke
2 (foran komp. for å betegne en høyere grad enn en allerede meget høy grad) han er enda lengre enn broren / det blir jo enda verre (el. (mer muntlig) verre enda) ; (foran tallord) enda en gang en gang til; (som presiserende ledd) jeg husker det godt – det var enda den dagen da taket blåste av uthuset
3 tross alt; likevel: det var enda godt vi hadde med regnfrakk / du har fått alt du bad om, og enda sitter du og surmuler!; hadde jeg enda (ɔ: bare) visst dette før!
B (som konj.) til tross for at: han kan ikke lese, enda han er 13 år
Etym.: gno. enn þá enda på det tidspunkt
Synonymer: A 3. dog, endog, når alt kommer til alt
B selv om, skjønt, på tross av ''


norsk-tysk ordbok gives it like this:

''enda (ennå)
1. (adv.) noch; (hittil) jeg har enda ikke hørt noe nytt ich habe noch keine Nachricht erhalten; han bor enda i X er wohnt noch in X; (fremdeles) vi har enda tid wir haben noch Zeit; (ytterligere) jeg må si deg enda en ting ich muss dir noch etwas sagen; (foran komparativer) det var enda større enn jeg trodde es war noch größer als ich dachte.
2. (subjunksjon) (skjønt) obwohl, obgleich, obschon''

Edited by Medulin on 21 August 2012 at 4:58pm

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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 34 of 338
21 August 2012 at 5:14pm | IP Logged 
Expugnator wrote:
Medulin (=TeneReef?):

En liten leksjon var ikke tilstrekkelig, og jeg vil skrive på norsk igjen. Jeg har lest leksjonen på bussen, før jeg
kom til kontoret. Assimils noter er alltid veldig interessante, men i jeg ville gjerne spare tid til å lese og skrive
etter leksjonen i dag. Denne er fortsatt for korte, og jeg synes at det er så mye å lære etter Assimil! Kanskje
skulle jeg se etter noen tekster fra aviser om kultur, samfunn, selv sladder - jeg vil bare ikke lese om politik!




En liten leksjon var ikke tilstrekkelig, og jeg vil skrive på norsk igjen. Jeg leste leksjonen på bussen, før jeg
kom til kontoret. Assimils noter (forklaringer) er alltid veldig interessante, men jeg ville gjerne spare tid til å
lese og skrive etter leksjonen i dag. Den er fortsatt for kort, og jeg synes at det er så mye å lære etter Assimil!
Kanskje jeg skulle se etter noen tekster fra aviser om kultur, samfunn, selv sladder - jeg vil bare ikke lese om
politikk!


Your mistakes are marginal. You should be very proud of yourself

And yes, you are lucky to have several Norwegians discussing usage on your blog. We are rather calm
people, but get us to discuss the Norwegian language, and you will see our level of activity sky rocket :-)
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tractor
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 Message 35 of 338
21 August 2012 at 5:48pm | IP Logged 
Quote:
1.Fortid: De levde enda/ennå for tre år siden.

2.Nåtid: Sykebilen er enda/ennå ikke kommet.

3.Framtid: Om to uker er det enda/ennå ikke for seint å melde seg på fjellturen til Slogen.

At school we learnt that 'enda' should be used for past events, and 'ennå' for present and future events. It was
possibly some stupid rule that our teacher had invented himself.

I'm from the North and I always say 'enda'.
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Expugnator
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 Message 36 of 338
21 August 2012 at 6:45pm | IP Logged 
You just made my day, Solfrid Cristin! =D I'm making more mistakes in French than in Norwegian!! I'm highly motivated now, also because of the discussions going on. Since I changed my attitude from wanderlusting-only to half-wanderlusting/half-builiding-up I think I'm finally going somewhere with my languages. One of them I deem really high is certainly Norwegian, it always looked somehow familiar, unexplainably, and now it only gets more and more so as I study.

From the recent corrections, it seems Norwegian uses the compound/perfect past tense far less than English, is it so? There are languages that nearly only make use of compound pasts, like French, Italian, and German to a high though slightly lower extent. How does Norwegian behave at this respect?
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Solfrid Cristin
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 Message 37 of 338
21 August 2012 at 8:01pm | IP Logged 
I am really bad at grammar, and worse at Norwegian grammar, but I believe there is a rule that if you do not
specify the time frame, or you are within the same timeframe then you use the compound tense, but if you
are describing an act outside your timeframe then you use the simple past tense.

Jeg har syklet. ( no time frame)

Jeg har syklet i dag. (Within the time frame of today)

Jeg syklet i går. ( outside the timeframe of today)

Jeg syklet i morges. (outside of the timeframe of this afternoon)

I trust someone can give you a more achademic explanation, but these are the rules I have learned.


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Medulin
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 Message 38 of 338
22 August 2012 at 1:49am | IP Logged 
So, Norwegian behaves similar to European Spanish when it comes to past simple / present perfect . ;)

Edited by Medulin on 22 August 2012 at 1:49am

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Brun Ugle
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brunugle.wordpress.c
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 Message 39 of 338
22 August 2012 at 8:09am | IP Logged 
Solfrid Cristin wrote:
I am really bad at grammar, and worse at Norwegian grammar, but I believe there is a rule that if you do not
specify the time frame, or you are within the same timeframe then you use the compound tense, but if you
are describing an act outside your timeframe then you use the simple past tense.

Jeg har syklet. ( no time frame)

Jeg har syklet i dag. (Within the time frame of today)

Jeg syklet i går. ( outside the timeframe of today)

Jeg syklet i morges. (outside of the timeframe of this afternoon)

I trust someone can give you a more achademic explanation, but these are the rules I have learned.



Exactly.

The past (imperfect) is used to refer to an event that happened at a specific time, while the perfect is used when the event isn't fixed in time. (Just condensing what you wrote, Cristina)

My knowledge of Norwegian grammar is pretty bad too, since I never really studied it formally. I learned a lot of my Norwegian from reading Donald Duck. Now, I've decided to try to do something about my grammar, so following along with your learning efforts, Expugnator, will probably be good for me too.

I usually get most of it right, but I really don't know the rules so when I, for some reason, try to think about what the right way to express something is, I suddenly become very unsure. So now I've decided I will actually use my book, Norwegian An Essential Grammar to look these things up. It's a great book by the way, so if you don't have it, you should get it.

Edited by Brun Ugle on 22 August 2012 at 8:10am

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jeff_lindqvist
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 Message 40 of 338
22 August 2012 at 8:36am | IP Logged 
Just for the record, the usage of simple/compund is the same in Swedish.


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