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When can I say that I "know" Spanish?

 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages Post Reply
16 messages over 2 pages: 1 2 
Random review
Diglot
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 5587 days ago
781 posts - 1310 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Portuguese, Mandarin, Yiddish, German

 
 Message 9 of 16
29 August 2012 at 5:03am | IP Logged 
Not according to my profile I didn't.
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Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
Joined 6401 days ago
9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 10 of 16
29 August 2012 at 5:15am | IP Logged 
It's possible to list your skills in all four areas but I don't see them in your profile. (You can look at them in mine, for example:))

Well, if I don't care about something then it's enough for me to be able to say so and to try to change the subject. There have been plenty of discussions about basic fluency, perhaps exactly because of the "any topic" thing, and it's mostly just monolinguals that have those super strict criteria:)

As for what possessed you, maybe you thought basic was really basic?
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outcast
Bilingual Heptaglot
Senior Member
China
Joined 4753 days ago
869 posts - 1364 votes 
Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin
Studies: Korean

 
 Message 11 of 16
29 August 2012 at 6:54pm | IP Logged 
Personally, my threshold of basic fluency is lower than most people I presume. To me, it is being able to hold conversations on wide topics with natives, but not to a technical level and making mistakes, and still going around phrases and sometimes not knowing the correct vocabulary. Because as imperfect as all that maybe, you could still LIVE in the countries where such language is spoken and not be isolated from the population.

Advanced fluency is another matter, and I personally will likely never upgrade my "languages" to that level, unless I spend at least 6 months in full immersion.
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geoffw
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4492 days ago
1134 posts - 1865 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish
Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian

 
 Message 12 of 16
29 August 2012 at 7:15pm | IP Logged 
Random review wrote:
Even now I don't speak
Spanish, I study it and my Spanish is a ton better than it was 3-4 yeas ago. Sometimes I
feel embarrassed; but sometimes it used to motivate me to try and make it true.


I felt the same way about Yiddish for a while. My 98-99% newspaper comprehension easily beat the required 80%, but I never had anyone to talk to besides my toddler whom I'm trying to teach, so I figured my true speaking skills must be terrible (and probably were, for a while). While I knew I was close, my "guilt" about possibly over stating my ability in an internet forum did help me to keep working on it.

Having recently made it to my first ever Yiddish conversation group, I'm finally starting to feel at peace with my listed status, and in retrospect, if that silly online profile was what helped me actually learn to speak passable Yiddish over this past year, then it was all worthwhile a hundred times over!
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geoffw
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4492 days ago
1134 posts - 1865 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish
Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian

 
 Message 13 of 16
29 August 2012 at 7:17pm | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
also, i think most people are aware that if you list a language under Speaks rather than Studies, this doesn't mean you've stopped studying it.


Right. Even if you list it under advanced fluency, that doesn't necessarily mean you've stopped studying it.
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geoffw
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4492 days ago
1134 posts - 1865 votes 
Speaks: English*, German, Yiddish
Studies: Modern Hebrew, French, Dutch, Italian, Russian

 
 Message 14 of 16
29 August 2012 at 7:25pm | IP Logged 
outcast wrote:
Personally, my threshold of basic fluency is lower than most people I presume. To me, it is being able to hold conversations on wide topics with natives, but not to a technical level and making mistakes, and still going around phrases and sometimes not knowing the correct vocabulary. Because as imperfect as all that maybe, you could still LIVE in the countries where such language is spoken and not be isolated from the population.


Agreed. The way I think about it is, if I were stuck in an area with only 100% monolingual speakers of my L2, would I be able to function, even if with some minor difficulty.

Of course, there really is no such place when it comes to Yiddish, as there are basically no true adult Yiddish monolinguals. Furthermore, Yiddish by its nature has always borrows very heavily from the surrounding dominant languages, to the point of feeling like code-switching, at least as far as vocabulary is concerned. If you're speaking Yiddish in America, e.g., it's actually standard practice to throw in a lot of English vocabulary (Yiddishists might object on grounds of linguistic purity, but recognize that this occurs in native-speaking communities). The trick is learning when and to what degree...
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beano
Diglot
Senior Member
United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4426 days ago
1049 posts - 2152 votes 
Speaks: English*, German
Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian

 
 Message 15 of 16
30 August 2012 at 1:14am | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
The official criteria are:
Basic Fluency - you understand at least 80% of a regular newspaper in your target language and can hold regular conversations about any topic, understanding what people say and getting your point across.
Advanced Fluency means that you can read a popular novel and not miss more than 2 words per page on average, and hold advanced conversations with minimal mistakes.


I think I'm somewhere in between with German. I can understand over 90% of a newspaper article and can read a popular novel without a dictionary. I don't get every single word, but more than enough to follow the story accurately. I can hold conversations about almost any subject but I wouldn't say my mistakes are minimal. As for passive understanding, that is now nearing 100% as I've had tons of exposure.

Actually, someone asked me today if I could speak any German. Normally I'm quite modest and say I speak it fairly well, but today I told this guy I was "almost fluent". Must admit, it felt good to say that.
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justonelanguage
Diglot
Groupie
United States
Joined 4266 days ago
98 posts - 128 votes 
Speaks: English, Spanish

 
 Message 16 of 16
14 September 2012 at 5:26am | IP Logged 
You *know* it when you can read...say..."El coronel no tiene quien le escriba" without a dictionary and only missing some words from time to time.

When you can talk to a native-speaker and just based on their word choice and accent, know what country they are from. (it implies a lot of exposure to natives, too)

When you don't have to think about "preterite" versus "imperfect" or "indicative" versus "subjunctive" except rarely.

You don't have to think about how to conjugate irregular verbs; you do it reflexively/instinctively.

Are you gifted at making sounds? I've met a LOT of Spanish students and there is actually only one person that I would ever say that is very naturally blessed with a good accent in Spanish.

Of course, everybody has their own definition of "fluency" or "knowing" a language. Just work at getting better! We can always improve...

cmmah wrote:
I can watch a TV programme and understand about 80-90% of what's said. I could probably pass an A-level (which
some people equate to a 'B2' level), bar some vocabulary, and I can read a novel using a dictionary.

My speaking fluency is somewhat good. I'd say that spending a good two weeks or so in a Spanish-speaking
country would get me to a brilliant level of speaking.

I'd say that my main weaknesses lie in my limited amount of vocabulary. Then again, I've seen people on this site
who put languages in their 'speaks' category but then ask for advice on how to expand their relatively small
vocabulary.

When can I say that I "know" or "can speak" a language? Do I have to be able to read a novel without a dictionary, or
be able to defend myself in court, before I can say that? Or would my current level be adequate to say "I know/can
speak Spanish"?



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