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Two basic Spanish grammar questions | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| grunts67 Diglot Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5082 days ago 215 posts - 252 votes  Speaks: French*, English Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 1 of 8 03 September 2012 at 2:00am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hello,
I am currently completing Practice make perfect Basic grammar and after the 3 chapter (our of ten), I am having two grammar points that I still don't understand. 1 - Why, in the following sentences, can't I put an article after the noun. No hay luces en la sala de clase. ¿Hay tiza para la pizarra? 2 - In the following question, I wrote the adjectif after the noum that it refer to but my answers book put them before the noun. Why ? - ¿Es él bueno restaurante? OR ¿Es él restaurante bueno? Also, if someone could give me some advice on my pronunciation i will greatly appreciate it. I put a youtube video of me, reading a small part of a unread part (for me a tleast) of Harry potter's book. The beginning is not really good, it took me 20 seconds to overcome camera shyness. Here is the link: Spanish pronunciation - first try Thank you Edited by grunts67 on 03 September 2012 at 4:41am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4729 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 2 of 8 03 September 2012 at 6:04am | IP Logged | |||||
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Hi,
I'm not sure to be honest what you are asking in the first question. Both those sentences are grammatically correct. As far as I know you never put the articles after the nouns in Spanish (or French that I know of!... example: "pescado el/poisson le", those makes no sense). The second question is tricky. As you know, in Romance languages there are a few very common adjectives that are placed before the nouns and not after (why, I don't know): buen caballero (SP) bel endroit (FR) bom relatório (PT) Spanish uses inversion very rarely compared to French (and Portuguese never uses inversion at all in questions), but in a few cases it does use inversion, but it is optional mostly: INVERSION: ¿Es bueno el restaurante? NO INVERSION: ¿El restaurante es bueno? (also OK) French: C'est bon le restaurant? I think the reason the adjective stays where it is in both Spanish and French is because those adjectives are acting as predicates when used with ser/être, so in essence they are a whole idea (ser bueno/être bon). But when you are just starting it is better to just accept it. I would tell you that when the verb is "ser" keep any adjective with the verb if you use inversion in a question: ¿Es interesante el programa? ¿Es linda la pintura? ¿Es pesado el bolso? etc, etc. + 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| grunts67 Diglot Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5082 days ago 215 posts - 252 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 3 of 8 03 September 2012 at 6:18am | IP Logged | |||||
For the first question, thoses two sentences are considered correct. No hay luces en la sala de clase. ¿Hay tiza para la pizarra? But those aren't : (I have inserted the article in the following sentences) No hay las luces en la sala de clase. ¿Hay la tiza para la pizarra? 2- I see, it make sense. In the exercise I was doing everything was the standard noun+adj and at some point it's was an invertion but with no explanation. Also, that way they put the emphasis on the adjective. But anyhow, I will just go with the flow and take it as cash. thank a lot 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 4910 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 4 of 8 03 September 2012 at 6:28am | IP Logged | |||||
This isn't a hard and fast rule, but could be seen as a somewhat simplified explanation: descriptive adjectives placed before nouns tend to be of a more subjective or intensifying nature. So the "un buen restaurante" example could be taken as being a good restaurant in your opinion, or "a really good restaurant". "Un restaurante bueno" is simply saying that the restaurant is a good (in general) one. Again, it's certainly not an absolute rule, but it's a good starting point. One other thing to be aware of with adjective placement is that in some cases, the meaning changes. For example: "mi viejo amigo" is something along the lines of "my longtime friend" (someone I've been friends with for a long time), whereas "mi amigo viejo" is "my old friend" (my friend is old/aged). R. == 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4729 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 5 of 8 03 September 2012 at 6:32am | IP Logged | |||||
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Oh, I see what you mean.
Well, there are two things that could be happening there that are causing you a little confusion. First, remember that Spanish does not have a partitive in the way French does. Perhaps you may simply be experiencing translation interference. No hay (la) tiza para la pizarra = Il n'y a pas de craie pour le tableau. In Spanish you don't need to put anything before a noun in this situation (situations where French/Italian use the partitive). Or optionally you can use the indefinite article (the indefinite articles in Spanish can be considered a partitive): No hay una tiza para la pizarra. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| grunts67 Diglot Senior Member CanadaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5082 days ago 215 posts - 252 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 6 of 8 03 September 2012 at 6:33am | IP Logged | |||||
Make sense now. Thank you very much 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4729 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 7 of 8 03 September 2012 at 6:37am | IP Logged | |||||
Indeed, I'm well aware of those "camaleon" adjectives (they must be a slight headache for non-romance learners): um grande homem/um homem grande mes chers livres/mes livres chers mi pobre tio/mi tio pobre Totally different meanings simply by switching positions. There are a few adjectives however that nearly always come before the noun and don't have this "double" shiftyness. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Merv Bilingual Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5053 days ago 414 posts - 749 votes Speaks: English*, Serbo-Croatian* Studies: Spanish, French | Message 8 of 8 08 September 2012 at 6:19am | IP Logged | |||||
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To answer you articles question, because the verb haber is being used and we are speaking of general things (not
specified things), you either use the indefinite (no hay una tiza, no hay unas luces) or no article (no hay tiza, no hay luces). If you want to use the definite article, you have specific objects in mind and then you use estar (no estan las luces en..., no esta la tiza en...). I hope that helps. Regarding your bueno/buen question, if you put that adjective before the noun it modifies, bueno becomes buen (also malo becomes mal). Most adjectives do not change depending on their position relative to the noun (casa blanca, blanca casa). Grande/gran involves a change in meaning, where gran means great (and comes before the noun) and grande means large (and comes after the noun). 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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