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Advice on Spanish and French/German/Por..

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patuco
Diglot
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Gibraltar
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Speaks: Spanish, English*
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 Message 17 of 91
08 September 2012 at 8:03pm | IP Logged 
justonelanguage wrote:
You're from Gibraltar and I know that most of you guys are bilingual, and also speak a mixed Spanish/English hybrid. You are a native Spanish speaker?

Yes on all counts, except that the "hybrid" also contains words from other languages (read more about it here). I consider myself a native speaker, despite having a rather poor vocabulary in Spanish (that's a topic for a whole different thread!).

Edited by patuco on 08 September 2012 at 8:04pm

3 persons have voted this message useful



Serpent
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 Message 18 of 91
08 September 2012 at 9:30pm | IP Logged 
justonelanguage wrote:
Example of increasing complexity: I have a foot.
I have a foot composed of bones, muscles, ligaments, tendons.
I have a foot composed of metatarsals, phalanges, cuneiforms, navicular, cuboid, calcaneus.
I have a foot composed of all the above bones plus the many joints, ligaments, blood vessels, etc.
Patient presents with focal pain on the distal tibula provoked with increased amounts of miles run as a member of their school's track team. What is the differential diagnosis, laboratory or imaging tests, and management for patient.
--It gets much more complex. :)
Complicated, but that's just vocabulary. And that's not even the most complex kind of it, as this sort of vocab has a lot of loan words from Latin in both English and Spanish.
And as far as I understand, you won't even really need to be able to say this sort of things in any new language you may want to start. And passively it's even easier to understand this sort of texts.

Actually, the vocab of YOUR field is supposed to be one of the easiest spheres. The basic words from other fields, now that is where the fun starts :D
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justonelanguage
Diglot
Groupie
United States
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Speaks: English, Spanish

 
 Message 19 of 91
09 September 2012 at 1:59am | IP Logged 
The vocab of my field (medicine) is supposed to be one of the easiest spheres? What is a "sphere"? I don't understand the sentence. Regardless, it is NOT easy remembering the vocab in medicine, there are a LOT of words and terms to know. Head and neck for anatomy was killer...are you a physician/medical student?

Serpent wrote:


Actually, the vocab of YOUR field is supposed to be one of the easiest spheres. The basic words from other fields, now that is where the fun starts :D

1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
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 Message 20 of 91
09 September 2012 at 3:13am | IP Logged 
Nope, just interested. I love using the "_______ for doctors" kind of textbooks.

The vocab related to one's own field of work is considered to be something relatively easy, according to Gunnemark for example. This supposedly requires a smaller vocabulary than reading fiction.

A Finnish example from google to show you how lucky you are with Spanish:

Useimmiten eturistisiteen repeämä pyritään hoitamaan leikkaamalla, mutta ei aina.



...look at it. try to understand ANYTHING:)

*fanfares*
translation: In most cases, it is endeavoured to treat a rupture of the anterior cruciate ligament by performing an operation, but not always.

Finnish uses the native terms for words like anterior ("front"), rupture/tear etc. The only loan word here is risti, from the Slavic krest 'cross'. Not a single word from Latin here.

Compared to that, Spanish is crystal clear, especially when it comes to understanding.

My main point was that the vocabulary is not difficult... there's just a lot of it. But note that your examples use quite simple grammar - basically just participles and the word 'to be', the rest are just nounsnounsnouns.

How are you currently learning the vocabulary? Try something like Anki, this will make it easier to revise it systematically. Sounds like your tools aren't efficient enough.
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justonelanguage
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 Message 21 of 91
09 September 2012 at 6:17am | IP Logged 
Um, I actually don't spend much time with Spanish anymore. Like 30 minutes a day reading/speaking, etc. However, languages are MUCH easier for me than medicine.

Trust me, I'm good at memorizing. For the little amount of time I spend on Spanish, I know a LOT and have maintained a LOT of vocab.

Yeah, what you said about "the vocab related to one's own field of work is considered to be something relatively easy" is NOT true for medicine. It is HARD.

If you think it's so easy, look at First Aid for Step One (the first medical board exam that I'm studying for). The test is 8 hours long and the main review book (there are several books to study but this is the main one) is over 500 pages. Here is just one bug.

Pseudomonas aeruginosa: associated with wound and burn infections. Pneumonia, Sepsis, External Otitis, UTI, Drug use, and Diabetic osteomylitis characterize it. Produces a blue-green pigment and has a grapelike odor. Treatment includes Aminoglycoside + extended-spectrum penicillin. It's an aerobic bug.

Lyme disease: Caused by borrelia burgdorferi, transmitted by ticks. There are 3 stages of lyme disease: Stage 1: erythema migrans. Stage 2: neurologic (Bell's palsy) and cardiac (AV nodal block) manifestations. Stage 3: Chronic monoarthritis, and migratory polyarthritis.

Tx: Doxycycline, ceftriaxone.

There are literally HUNDREDS of diseases that I have to know and each disease has a bunch of symptoms, treatment modalities, etc.

The vaunted MCAT (test we need to take to get into med school) is like 4 hours long and is CHILDS PLAY compared to the medical licensing boards. The MCAT is more critical thinking (easier) than knowing vast sums of information. And doing well on the MCAT is very tough; only about 44% of applicants to MD schools are accepted each year. That means that if 100 peeps apply in a cycle...only 44 get accepted! Since the average person applies to about 12 schools, there is under a 4% change of being accepted by an individual school. And finishing med school is much harder than getting accepted.

It's going to hurt people's feelings, but medicine is harder than probably every other career out there. The only thing harder is probably the MD/PhD programs that exist or some JD/MD programs.

Finally, I don't need help learning Spanish. This thread was just to see how much people improved when living abroad from 1,5, and 10 years.

Serpent wrote:
Nope, just interested. I love using the "_______ for doctors" kind of textbooks.

The vocab related to one's own field of work is considered to be something relatively easy, according to Gunnemark for example. This supposedly requires a smaller vocabulary than reading fiction.

A Finnish example from google to show you how lucky you are with Spanish:

Useimmiten eturistisiteen repeämä pyritään hoitamaan leikkaamalla, mutta ei aina.



...look at it. try to understand ANYTHING:)

*fanfares*
translation: In most cases, it is endeavoured to treat a rupture of the anterior cruciate ligament by performing an operation, but not always.

Finnish uses the native terms for words like anterior ("front"), rupture/tear etc. The only loan word here is risti, from the Slavic krest 'cross'. Not a single word from Latin here.

Compared to that, Spanish is crystal clear, especially when it comes to understanding.

My main point was that the vocabulary is not difficult... there's just a lot of it. But note that your examples use quite simple grammar - basically just participles and the word 'to be', the rest are just nounsnounsnouns.

How are you currently learning the vocabulary? Try something like Anki, this will make it easier to revise it systematically. Sounds like your tools aren't efficient enough.

1 person has voted this message useful



Gala
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 Message 22 of 91
09 September 2012 at 6:58am | IP Logged 
justonelanguage wrote:

Finally, I don't need help learning Spanish.This thread was just to see how much people
improved when living abroad from 1,5, and 10 years.


So I guess your tiresome lists of Spanish medical terms and reiterations of how
complicated it all is were just for the purpose of self-aggrandizement.
12 persons have voted this message useful



Julie
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PolandRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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 Message 23 of 91
09 September 2012 at 10:20am | IP Logged 
justonelanguage wrote:
Yeah, what you said about "the vocab related to one's own
field of work is considered to be something relatively easy" is NOT true for medicine.
It is HARD.


Let's not confuse two things: learning about your field of work (I don't think no one
would ever argue medicine is not difficult!) and learning foreign language vocab when
you already know the field (hence, you know vocab in your mother tongue, and in the
case of medicine usually in Latin, too).

Quote:

Pseudomonas aeruginosa: associated with wound and burn infections. Pneumonia, Sepsis,
External Otitis, UTI, Drug use, and Diabetic osteomylitis characterize it. Produces a
blue-green pigment and has a grapelike odor. Treatment includes Aminoglycoside +
extended-spectrum penicillin. It's an aerobic bug.

Quote:

There are literally HUNDREDS of diseases that I have to know and each disease has a
bunch of symptoms, treatment modalities, etc.

For sure it is very difficult to memorize hundreds of diseases with symptoms,
treatment modalities etc. However, if you've learned it, it shouldn't be all that
difficult to learn the vocabulary in your target language, especially if it's e.g.
Spanish as compared to e.g. Finnish. I have no medical background whatsoever, and in
the text quoted above there aren't actually that many vocabulary items that are new to
me: Pseudomonas aeruginosa, External Otitis, UTI, Diabetic osteomylitis,
Aminoglycoside. If I knew these terms in my native language and Latin, I could learn
them easily in English (or I would actually know them already, at least passively -
e.g. aminoglikozyd is the Polish term for aminoglycoside).

Edited by Julie on 09 September 2012 at 10:22am

4 persons have voted this message useful



patuco
Diglot
Moderator
Gibraltar
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3795 posts - 4268 votes 
Speaks: Spanish, English*
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 Message 24 of 91
09 September 2012 at 1:09pm | IP Logged 
justonelanguage wrote:
And doing well on the MCAT is very tough; only about 44% of applicants to MD schools are accepted each year. That means that if 100 peeps apply in a cycle...only 44 get accepted! Since the average person applies to about 12 schools, there is under a 4% change of being accepted by an individual school.

I know how you've attained the figure of <4% but I don't think that it's strictly accurate as there are too many variables.


justonelanguage wrote:
It's going to hurt people's feelings, but medicine is harder than probably every other career out there. The only thing harder is probably the MD/PhD programs that exist or some JD/MD programs.

This is a statement that I've come to expect, since I've yet to meet a doctor who doesn't think that his or her profession is the hardest in the world. I have great respect for (most!) doctors and I'm sure that most study a great deal and undergo rigorous testing to both enter and succeed in medical school, but I think that it depends on how you define "hard" (conceptually difficult, memorisation of lots of facts, etc).

Not having gone to medical school myself, I obviously cannot comment on how hard it was to enter or successfully qualify, but, conversely, I assume that most doctors have not also enrolled in, say, postgraduate programs in physics, which, if memory serves me correctly, was rather tricky.


justonelanguage wrote:
Finally, I don't need help learning Spanish. This thread was just to see how much people improved when living abroad from 1,5, and 10 years.

Whilst most might agree with Gala's post above, it could be that people might have misunderstood this given the title of the thread and the first sentence of the opening post.

To answer your question directly, it would probably be safe to assume that the longer one spends in a country, the greater the improvement seen in one's language, given that the learner is actively trying to improve, rather than simply trying to get by in English (or whatever other language). I suppose that you want concrete examples, so I will defer to other members of the forum who might have spent some time living abroad and can answer your question from personal experience.

Edited by patuco on 09 September 2012 at 1:11pm



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