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Rosetta stone vs. Pimsleur | ||
Tags: Rosetta Stone | Pimsleur | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5330 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes  Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 9 of 20 16 September 2012 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | ||
As a community, HTLAL doesn't evaluate language products by how "immersive" they are, or whether they use a computer. We rely on trusted community members who've successfully used a given course, where "successfully" means they've actually learned to speak the language. Once upon a time, Assimil was unpopular at HTLAL. Our forum administrator was a fan of Pimsleur, and he was extremely skeptical that Assimil had anything to offer. But one day, Alexander Arguelles—who's solidly conversational in about 20 languages—wrote a long post about how he used Assimil successfully. Luca Lampariello, another polyglot, said some nice things as well. So people started trying Assimil. And it worked. Every few weeks, somebody starts a Language Log on HTLAL using Assimil. And if they actually do one lesson a day, I generally expect them to reach A2 in about 6 months, which means they can carry on useful conversations and read the newspaper with the dictionary. Now, Assimil isn't for everybody. Lots of people around here use FSI, Michel Thomas, Pimsleur, Listening/Reading, the sentences method and certain Teach Yourself courses. All of these work, though a few don't take you far enough on their own. Which brings us to Rosetta Stone. I've never met anybody who learned to speak a language using Rosetta Stone. I have a family member and neighbor who've tried it and failed. There was a former employee of Rosetta Stone who briefly kept a log here, but he never demonstrated any actual competence in the languages he claimed to have learned. And I once heard second- hand from the owner of Schoenhof's that he knew a few people who've succeeded. But really, successful Rosetta Stone students seem to be about as rare as UFO sightings. Seriously, if Rosetta Stone wants us to believe in their courses, all they need to do is produce credible results. 11 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6395 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 10 of 20 16 September 2012 at 3:04pm | IP Logged | ||
Makes me wonder whether that guy I've already mentioned now studies Spanish via Croatian or English... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Languageguy Diglot Newbie Croatia Joined 4299 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English Studies: German | Message 11 of 20 16 September 2012 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | ||
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Ok, so I guess Assimil is a good method, maybe I should try it. I have it in book
format, but without audio, text only. As for RS, I tested it and while I like the basic idea I think the program is not something that will get me far, so while I may use it occasionaly, I would prefer something that is tested. I don't know what you think of Pimsleur, is it as good as Assimil or inferior? "How did you get it? Was it easy? Are there enough Croatians willing to learn German via English?" I got it as a present from my uncle, language enthusiast. Except for him, no, I don't know many Croatians willing to learn German, via English or not. As a Russian speaker, maybe you know how long it takes for another Slavic language speaker to learn Russian? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6395 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 20 16 September 2012 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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It's not allowed to post links but you can find Assimil audio online;) It has a very high quality.
As for Russian, well, it depends on what you want to do with it. I learned Polish to a good level in a few months, but I'm definitely not fluent. And I think Russian and Croatian are closer than Russian and Polish. Anyway, passive fluency will be easy but speaking a related language without using words from your native one is much harder. Often I'm not even sure whether it's the same word or I'm using a Russian one XD :/ If you know any Russians, you'll pick up a lot by just hanging out with them:) My experience with Pimsleur is limited to 10 lessons of Romanian and I agree with everyone that it's good for the pronunciation.. (though as a Russian I had no problems with the famous â/î sound;)))...but it's very slow:( I think RS is also slow though. Assimil takes you muuuuch further. But really? I thought German was a popular language in Croatia because Austria and Switzerland aren't very far and there are a lot of tourists etc... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Languageguy Diglot Newbie Croatia Joined 4299 days ago 4 posts - 4 votes Speaks: Croatian*, English Studies: German | Message 13 of 20 16 September 2012 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | ||
Thanks, I'll try it, I'm aware they have many languages in offer, but unfortunately majority of them are avaliable only in French, and I don't speak any French:) As for German, we have it in school and most people know a few phrases, but it's not really too popular, at least not where I live. English is much better known. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6395 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 14 of 20 16 September 2012 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | ||
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The Assimil audio is only in your target language anyway.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4807 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 15 of 20 17 September 2012 at 11:48am | IP Logged | ||
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No method is good for everyone, that's like assuming all people have the same favourite
meal. Pimsleur is usually considered good for teaching you the base and teaching you to speak right away. I have tried it and it wasn't a suitable entrance to the language for me (I need the visual contact with the language as well), but many people claim it to be the best start. Assimil is really good. It is as well a good complement to other things because you rarely find another such great source of beginner listening and reading material. Of course,some Assimils are better, some are worse. I like the German one but it is said the older version was better. I have both in my computer and will get to the old one later :-) FSI is great but it is boring for most people. The drill exercises really work. And it is free. Just don't use it as your single resource because there were major ortograph chenges happening in German since FSI course was published. RS won't take you far by itself but some people use it at least to learn some vocabulary. Other nice (and free and absolutely awesome) tools are Anki or Memrise which are basically digital flashcards. Don't underestimate classical courses. Teach Yourself and Colloquial are most well known among the English speaking learners but there are many such in English or other languages. I have found wonderful Czech based ones so I guess there should be some Croatian ones (both our languages are similarly small and unimportant while German has been quite a popular language in both countries). Immersion and computer based course are two different things which may or may not come together. Reading books/internet articles/news, listening to music/audiobooks/radio or watching movies/tv series in the language, that is a real immersion. And later, if you can afford it, there is no better immersion than to go in the country. But a lot of immersion can be achieved at home. For inspiration, find a website all japanese all the time. I have been learning German for a few months now, it is my fourth foreign language. My recommendations: 1.Get a good classical course with audio and/or Assimil. A good classical course explains grammar, gives examples and vocabulary, has got audio and doesn't give stupid unrealistic promises like "get fluent in a month". The Pimsleur is a great thing as well to help you in the beginnings. 2.To get some listening material, go to the site Deutsche Welle and try their courses. They are really good, much better than similar material for other languages I have searched. 3.As soon as possible, start reading. At first graded readers or comic books or easy articles on the internet, and go progressively to more difficult things. Don't be afraid to leave the "I, as a beginner, should read" area and go to things you like. You have the internet, so it is not a trouble to read about mocycles, gardening, 18th century history or anything else you are interested in :-) 4.After you have got some of the basics, watch tv or movies in German. Firstly even with Croatian subtitles, later with German ones, and one day in future without subtitles. It helps a lot. 5.Pay attention to good pronunciation right from the beginning. Don't feel stupid to repeat aloud after the audio or to Shadow (more on Shadowing on the forums). Listening a lot helps with the pronunciation as well. Your Pimsleur should be a help here as well. 6.Think in the language or speak to yourself. Even a few words coming to your mind here and there are good in the beginning. 7.To get written things corrected, you can try for exemple italki.com 8.Try to get a language partner for exchange. That may be quite tricky because there are much fewer German learning small languages like Czech or Croatian than Germans learning English. Don't worry about that in the beginnings, such things get to solve themselves occassionally. 9.Don't be afraid to use monolingual sources. There are really nice grammars, vocabularies and exercise books meant for learners and many of them are suitable for a beginner as well. Too bad most of learners with few ressources in their native language look automatically for English based things without even considering this option. 10.Don't underestimate the grammar and vocabulary. These days, the main stream says "Grammar and vocabulary are not all the language, learn in a modern way". Sure, you need other things as well, but grammar and vocab are often the weak point which doesn't let you get your skills to higher level. 11.The most important thing: Have fun. If you are bored for longer time, you will probably quit. Don't let it happen. 12.A good thing is to keep a log. You'll have a place to put your progress and notes about your work, you'll have somewhere to look and see how much you have already done and it is a place where others won't hesitate to support you with their advice and encouragement. I hope my long post didn't scare you :-) Welcome to the forums, good luck with your German and have fun. If you have any questions, feel free to ask (and use the search function in the forum). And forgive us being a bit mistrustful. :-) Edited by Cavesa on 17 September 2012 at 11:49am 10 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Elexi Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5363 days ago 938 posts - 1839 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 16 of 20 17 September 2012 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | ||
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One thing I found about Pimsleur German (which I did as a complete beginner) is that
unless one has very good ears (which I don't) or already understand the German case system (which I didn't) the accusative and dative distinctions (e.g. den/dem) can get easily 'lost in the ear' in Pimsleur's inference-based audio only approach. This may not be a problem to a native speaker of Croatian (as it normally is to an English speaker) but with hindsight I should have done Pimsleur after encountering these grammatical forms in writing first (as it happens Assimil's old German Without Toil drills this feature to death in the second quarter of the book). Edited by Elexi on 17 September 2012 at 1:26pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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