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Present Perfect Tense and British People | ||
Tags: United Kingdom (UK) | Verbs/Conjugation | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Questions About Your Target Languages |  | |
| whitestorm Diglot Newbie Turkey Joined 5192 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English | Message 1 of 8 17 September 2012 at 11:26pm | IP Logged | ||
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Hello all,
I have experienced hard times to understand the small details of the present perfect tense and past simple tense since I was introduced to present perfect tense. I work for an international company and I am trying to observe how my English teammates use these tenses. I had a dialogue that made me confused yesterday. Let me tell you the story. My British supervisor gave me a chart. I was going to fill it until Monday before the close of the business day and send it to another one from our supplier company. Yesterday he sent me a reminder e-mail saying: "Did you complete it?" I thought the true tense should have been "present perfect tense". Because there is a relevance to now (Is it completed or not now?). In a book from Raymond Murphy there is an appendix. It explains some minor differences between American English and British English. I am copying it: "British: The present perfect is used for an action in the past with a result now. American: The present perfect or past simple can be used." And one of the examples is about that: British: Have you finished your job yet? American: Have you finished your job yet? or Did you finish your job? I understand it is OK to use past simple too for Americans. I wonder in informal language is it valid for British too? I am especially asking British native English speakers. Which one sounds better: "Have you completed it?" or "Did you finish?" In informal language do you often use past simple instead of present perfect tense? It really made me surprised to hear the past simple in this situation from a British person, I want to hear also your comments. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| schoenewaelder Diglot Senior Member Germany Joined 5341 days ago 759 posts - 1197 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: German, Spanish, Dutch | Message 2 of 8 20 September 2012 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | ||
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I've been mildly pondering on this, wondering if I could read any other meaning into the words (such as whether your boss is focussing on knowing if the task has been finished, or on your current state of possible unoccupiedness) but I can't come up with anything convincing, so I think I'll have say, that either can be used and the meaning is (virtually) the same.
(BrEng, but it's quite possible I've picked up some other influences) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4488 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 8 20 September 2012 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | ||
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I don't think it's that common, but it may be a recent trend English people have picked
up on. I personally might even ask "Are you done?" or "You done?" and keep it fairly short and to the point. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Марк Senior Member Russian Federation Joined 4837 days ago 2096 posts - 2972 votes Speaks: Russian* | Message 4 of 8 20 September 2012 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would like to know the answer too.
1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| whitestorm Diglot Newbie Turkey Joined 5192 days ago 6 posts - 6 votes Speaks: Turkish*, English | Message 5 of 8 20 September 2012 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | ||
I think the question is clear. I was supposed to send the document to another person. He wants to know does he have the document or not? I think "Did you complete it?" means "Have you completed it yet?". By the way I have talked about this matter to several British people. They say it is usual to use past simple instead of present perfect as it is easier. One of them, which is old, said he prefers to use present perfect when there is a result in present but younger ones tend to use past simple as they have been influenced by American English, and he thinks the difference between Americans and British in the use of present perfect tense is not much as it used to be in the past. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 jeff_lindqvist Diglot Moderator SwedenRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 6690 days ago 4250 posts - 5710 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English Studies: German, Spanish, Russian, Dutch, Mandarin, Esperanto, Irish, French Personal Language Map | Message 6 of 8 20 September 2012 at 11:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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My non-native intuition tells me that both tenses work in some cases, but not all the time. Change the verb to something else, and the difference is more striking:
Have you been in London? ("at all") Were you in London? ("last summer"/"during the holidays"/etc.) Any ideas? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Mareike Senior Member Germany Joined 6005 days ago 267 posts - 323 votes Speaks: German* Studies: English, Swedish | Message 7 of 8 20 September 2012 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||
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I'm a non-native, but some suggestions.
I learnt that last summer/week, then, yesterday etc. are finished time words, so you can't use the present perfect and you use the past tense. With words like ever, before, never, yet you use the present perfect. Have you ever been in London? Did you do your homework yesterday? Have you done your homework yet? But two quotes out of a grammar book: "With definite expressions of "time up to now" (e.g. today, this week), perfect und past tenses are often both possible. We prefer the present perfect if we are thinking of the whole period up to now. We prefer the simple past if we are thinking of a finished part of that periode" and "The difference between the present perfect and the simple past is not always very clear-cut. It often depends on our "focus": are we thinking mostly about the present relevance of a past event, or about the past details? In some cases both present perfect and past are possible with little difference of meaning." But there is also a comment about the American influence in the British English. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Peregrinus Senior Member United States Joined 4273 days ago 149 posts - 273 votes Speaks: English* | Message 8 of 8 21 September 2012 at 4:59am | IP Logged | ||
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As an American I will just say that the main difference to me is between:
1) an action that if unfinished might still being done now (possible result in the present), and 2) an action that was started in the past but if not completed is not still being done (result in the past), i.e was left unfinished in the past. Examples: a) Have you finished your homework yet? (implication is that it will be completed if not yet done) b) Did you finish eating those five hamburgers you ordered yesterday afternoon at McD's? (obvious implication that if not the meal is not still in progress and it was left undone) What is ambiguous are those type of actions that could plausibly either have been left undone with no intention of completion, but also might still be worked on up to the present and into the future with a view to completion. How an individual speaker perceives such situations will dictate what tense he/she uses, though of course mere laziness in making such distinctions is possible, in which case the simpler tense will likely be preferred. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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