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New course: Le québécois en 10 leçons

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Arekkusu
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 Message 89 of 167
28 October 2012 at 10:22pm | IP Logged 
s_allard wrote:
I listened to both intervews and I didn't hear any clear moé or toé at all. Mario Dumont
said three moi and in the case of Denis Coderre, I didn't count the large number of moi and toi but no moé or
toé.

In the Mario Dumont interview, I hear three moé that I couldn't consider to be moi : 1m56, 4m58, 5m25. Now,
if you disagree, I am NOT splicing it or slowing it down with Audacity or what have you.

Denis Coderre says 'toé si' at 3:53 and the other instances are more ambiguous, I must admit. Of course,
there is a gradual slope from mwa to moé, through moè.

Edited by Arekkusu on 28 October 2012 at 10:34pm

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s_allard
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 Message 90 of 167
29 October 2012 at 12:11am | IP Logged 
I relistened to the Mario Dumont interview and at 1m56 he says "..dont moi j'ai été victime" that I would not consider to be a "moé." Ditto for the others. And Mario Dumont is now a broadcaster on television and certainly pays attention to his language.

But the major issue here is that the pronunciation of popular Québécois French is changing and certain historic features that I mentioned in previous posts are disappearing or changing. In none of the 2 steamés interviews do we see anything close to a "moé pis toé" or a "moé, ch't'icitte pour..." Nobody under the age of 50 says "la nuitte" or "crée-le crée-le pas." The "r" and the "à" of "là là" are changing. Old swear forms like "viarge" and "torrieux" have gone out of style. Certain things may remain in certain comic performances but young people no longer use them.

But all these things can be included in a guide to popular Québécois. It's just a matter of indicating when they can and cannot be used.
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s_allard
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 Message 91 of 167
31 October 2012 at 5:16am | IP Logged 
If you are interested in listening to contemporary spoken standard Québécois you cannot do anything better than follow the live broadcast of the Charbonneau Commission that is looking into corruption in the construction business in Québec. Here is the website:


Charbonneau Commission

You will see a host of lawyers, the presiding judge Mme Charbonneau and a host of business people and government employees, all speaking Québecois French. You won't hear any "moé pis toé" or "ch't'icitte" in this group of speakers. But that does not prevent other people from speaking that way.
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s_allard
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 Message 92 of 167
31 October 2012 at 12:39pm | IP Logged 
What do other native Québécois speakers think about the content of this book? As I have said, the question isn't whether the contents are good or bad, but when to use what. All Québécois do not speak this way all the time. I have a problem calling this Le québécois.

On his website, Benny's website, Benny the Irish polyglot lavishes praise on the book and includes a sample dialog. Many non-Québécois commentators including some familiar names around HTLAL welcome this guide to the real way we Québécois speak. But here are two comments by Québécois:


Amélie B-O writes:

"I'm a native Québécois French speaker and even I find this post hilarious.

Like someone mentioned, this 'dialect' is spoken mostly by 'middle-class workers'. I think it's very important to know that this 'dialect' exists but also that most of us do not speak like that.

Of course, we do say "Y'a l'air fin!' and 'J'suis avec mon chum!' but it's part of our dialect and it part of how we pronounce stuff but there's still a distinction to make.

And yes... even if I'm a native speaker, I think Celine Dion sounds funny when she speaks French."

Robert Vitae writes:

"My only criticism, is that the examples you use are very working-class Quebec French. A good portion of Quebeckers use speak on a more sophisticated level, and would never use words like "icittte" "frette" etc.. It's still very valuable, but as in any society, there are various levels of language."

I can only say to non-Québécois readers, be careful and check with native speakers before using much of the material in this book.


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Sprachprofi
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 Message 93 of 167
31 October 2012 at 12:52pm | IP Logged 
Quote:
What do other native Québécois speakers think about the content of this book? As I have said, the
question isn't whether the contents are good or bad, but when to use what.


With all due respect, s_allard, I think you got it wrong. This thread is about what the book does well or badly,
it is not the place for an endless (and pointless) repetition of the "who speaks how" or "did Levesque use
'moé'" argument. You've derailed the discussion for several pages and just now posted three messages in a
row about this, don't you see that everyone but you got tired of this fight, at least here and now?
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Arekkusu
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 Message 94 of 167
31 October 2012 at 2:24pm | IP Logged 
The member formerly known as Cainntear's opinion on the question.

Québécois: a question of prestige
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tommus
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 Message 95 of 167
31 October 2012 at 2:24pm | IP Logged 
s_allard wrote:
If you are interested in listening to contemporary spoken standard Québécois you cannot do anything better than follow the live broadcast of the Charbonneau Commission that is looking into corruption in the construction business in Québec. Here is the website:
Charbonneau Commission

Hopefully this is keeping a bit to the theme of this thread. Note that this link is not only to huge amounts of authentic French from Quebec, but it includes very accurate transcriptions of all the dialogue.

A similar resource from Quebec is the Bastarache enquiry into the appointment of judges. It has 30 days of video testimony and matching transcriptions. It may tend to be very boring but it is another excellent parallel video/text resource.

http://www.cepnj.gouv.qc.ca/audiences.html
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s_allard
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 Message 96 of 167
31 October 2012 at 5:33pm | IP Logged 
Sprachprofi wrote:
Quote:
What do other native Québécois speakers think about the content of this book? As I have said, the
question isn't whether the contents are good or bad, but when to use what.


With all due respect, s_allard, I think you got it wrong. This thread is about what the book does well or badly,
it is not the place for an endless (and pointless) repetition of the "who speaks how" or "did Levesque use
'moé'" argument. You've derailed the discussion for several pages and just now posted three messages in a
row about this, don't you see that everyone but you got tired of this fight, at least here and now?


I totally agree that this thread is about what the book does well or badly. That is my whole point. I think this book does Le québécois language very badly because it misrepresents the language of an entire country. I think many Québécois do not find this very amusing. With a few elementary precautions, this bad feeling on the part of native Québécois like myself could have been avoided.

I've just received my own copy and I intend to use it my classes to show people what to say and what not to say. I know that @sprachprofi is a fan of Québécois. Welcome but I would be curious to actually hear her use "moé ch't'icitte" here in Montreal.


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