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Spanish Without Toil Versus With Ease | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| ericblair Senior Member United States Joined 4503 days ago 480 posts - 700 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 1 of 7 07 October 2012 at 5:19am | IP Logged | ||
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Hello all,
I have been doing a lot of browsing on the forum this evening. It seems that the differences between French Without Toil versus New French With Ease and German Without Toil versus German With Ease have been discussed and discussed again and again over the years. However the same level of discussion has not seemed to have occurred much with the Spanish version of these programs. Does anyone have experience with both or at least one and want to chime in? It seems to me that German Without Toil is basically a beast of a course and super stellar while German With Ease had some sloppy translation issues and such. New French With Ease is almost universally praised from what I have seen, but the older version is also highly praised. The one drawback I've seen written is that French Without Toil may simply be too steep of a progression for the modern learner. Which are the Spanish courses more like? Is the Without Toil clearly superior to With Ease? Does With Ease for Spanish suffer from the same sloppy translation and such as German With Ease? I have a copy of Spanish Without Toil from 1957. Have there been any great reforms in Spanish grammar or anything since then? I seem to recall reading on a review of Madrigal's Magic Keys to Spanish that some things in that book were outdated, and I believe it is from around the same time as Spanish Without Toil. Also, I am a speaker of "American" English, so I do know that some translations and such may seem funny to me just because it is aimed primarily at British speakers. Basically, I just want some reassurance that Spanish Without Toil is a good choice compared to shelling out the money for Spanish With Ease? Thanks. Also, does anyone have any idea how many words are taught in either of these courses? Thanks! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5245 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 2 of 7 07 October 2012 at 8:57am | IP Logged | ||
There have been a couple of minor spelling reforms, dealing mostly with whether or not certain words should be written with an accent. Nothing to worry about. Spanish spelling is very stable. Edited by tractor on 07 October 2012 at 8:57am 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Gala Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 4342 days ago 229 posts - 421 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: Italian | Message 3 of 7 07 October 2012 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have the audio for both and a PDF of Spanish Without Toil. Since my Spanish is
already fairly advanced, I'm not using them as intended, but rather to improve my listening comprehension of Peninsular Spanish (which I've had very little exposure to) and get a bit of review in the bargain. So...I've just been listening to the audio, and will refer to the PDF for W/out Toil if and as needed. Therefore, I can only tell you my experience from that perspective. For a beginner using them as intended, I can't say for sure which would be better. Without Toil is a lot more interesting and engaging; the narrative/dialogues revolve around a Frenchman living in Madrid and learning the language. Many of the dialogues of W/Ease seem random and disconnected. I also much prefer the speakers of W/out Toil (except for 1 female speaker who is supposed to be a young woman but sounds like a 6 yr.-old); the speakers on W/Ease have this weird dreamy quality to their delivery: they sound kinda drugged. Oddly (considering its age,) the language used in W/out Toil also seems more natural and realistic. Now, all of those things are also relevant for a beginner using either course as intended, which tempts me to say that W/out Toil is simply better. However, I can't say for certain that they outweigh other considerations, such as the possibility that W/out Toil's steeper progression might make W/Ease a better course for beginners. My feeling, though, is that the fact that the former is so much more entertaining *would* outweigh that. W/out Toil will also certainly take you farther. Really, though, from what I've seen (and I have examined the PDF for W/out Toil, as well as used the audio) my honest opinion is that neither Assimil should be used as the sole course for either beginners or false beginners. I'd recommend that you use it along with a text with clear, explicit grammar explanations and good practice exercises, like Madrigal's Magic Key to Spanish. Or, as you considered in your other thread, you could use the Destinos videos as they were intended (along with their textbook and workbooks, which you can get cheap on Amazon) and then later review with W/out Toil. Doing both at once might be a bit much. I don't agree that the Destinos books aren't good; I used them all the way through and think they're excellent; better than either Assimil (if I can judge by the W/out Toil book, and I've heard that W/Ease has even less explicit instruction) because they *combine* "intuitive assimilation" and explicit instruction. I never had the audio, either, but found plenty to do in the books without it. It was actually a relief to come upon the exercises that I couldn't do w/out the audio, because there were just *so many* exercises. Anyway, the audio can be found "out there," if you know what I mean. EDIT:explained why I think Destinos (as a full course) is superior to Assimil. Edited by Gala on 10 October 2012 at 8:05pm 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| James29 Diglot Senior Member United States Joined 5167 days ago 1265 posts - 2113 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish Studies: French | Message 4 of 7 08 October 2012 at 3:12am | IP Logged | ||
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I did With Ease quite extensively near the beginning of my studying and then did Without Toil later on when I was more of an intermediate. I only went through Without Toil once and did not spend nearly as much time with it as I did with With Ease. Anyway, I second much of what Gala says. I must say, however, that I enjoyed With Ease much more than Without Toil. I felt that the phrases and way of speaking in With Ease were more current and I really notice the similarities when I speak with Spaniards. When I quote With Ease with a Spaniard they will always understand the idiom or the point of what I am saying, however, when I say something that I learned in Without Toil I am often misunderstood or my language exchange partner simply does not know what I am talking about. I mention this because it is noticeable. It happens more with the cultural things than the language, but, nevertheless, it happens with the language too.
The major advantage of Without Toil is that it has way more material in it. Near the end the exercises sections were basically another whole lesson and could easily be used as separate lessons. I really find it unbelievable how much information they pack into Without Toil. The audio is essential for both courses. If you have good clear audio for Without Toil you will like it a lot. Both courses are great and would work well. If I had to recommend one of them I would recommend With Ease because it is more current, slightly easier and I simply enjoyed it more. 5 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| ericblair Senior Member United States Joined 4503 days ago 480 posts - 700 votes Speaks: English* Studies: French | Message 5 of 7 08 October 2012 at 6:30am | IP Logged | ||
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Tractor, thank you! I must say, it is a lot of your old inspirational posts about your
success with French Without Toil and Spanish Without Toil that got me most excited about trying Spanish from scratch with the older course :) Gala, thanks for your positive words on Spanish Without Toil! I am glad to read it will take me fairly far. Hopefully the steep progression doesn't get too discouraging. James29, thanks for your feedback as well. That is too bad to hear about Without Toil seeming so out-of-date in your experience. I do have the audio for Spanish Without Toil. I am happy to read you'd recommend both, in spite of preferring With Ease. Since I wanted to begin tomorrow morning, and don't have With Ease, I think I will just go ahead and use Without Toil and see what happens. Hopefully, the combination of SWOT with Spanish for Reading will help get me to a good enough level I can utilize native materials and quickly "update" my speech and such that way. Only time will tell. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| fanatic Octoglot Senior Member Australia speedmathematics.com Joined 6938 days ago 1152 posts - 1818 votes Speaks: English*, German, French, Afrikaans, Italian, Spanish, Russian, Dutch Studies: Swedish, Norwegian, Polish, Modern Hebrew, Malay, Mandarin, Esperanto | Message 6 of 7 08 October 2012 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | ||
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I began learning Spanish with Assimil Spanish Without Toil. I found it fun to read and easy to learn but I did have a good knowledge of French which definitely helped.
I did two lessons a day for about the first month and reviewed the lessons with my mp3 player. I listened while walking, shopping in the mall and wherever I could. I was able to read a Spanish translation printed in Mexico of one of my maths books and actually make a correction. The correction was not with the language but with one of the problems. I do have a lot of other Spanish courses; Linguaphone I bought from eBay, Ultimate Spanish, Teach Yourself and other courses I have picked up from second hand bookshops, but my study of the language has been almost entirely from Spanish Without Toil. My use of the language has been mainly confined to reading and watching movies. I did spend around six hours in Spain on my way to Europe. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| sfuqua Triglot Senior Member United States Joined 4557 days ago 581 posts - 977 votes Speaks: English*, Hawaiian, Tagalog Studies: Spanish | Message 7 of 7 09 October 2012 at 9:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I have just finished the passive wave of Spanish with Ease. I enjoyed the book and
enjoyed the process of learning Spanish. It was my first exposure to Spanish. I was very impressed with its impact on my passive skills, less so on my active skills. I suspect that most of my problems with SwE was the harebrained way I did it. 1) I started with SwE and used it by itself. I think I needed a clearer, more systematic approach to Spanish grammar than I got from SwE. I recently completed Michel Thomas, and I've had some remarkable progress, as MT tied up loose ends in my understanding. 2) I spent way too much time overlearning lessons. I think I was trying to turn sweet little Spanish with Ease into a big, bad FSI course. I would have done better if I had just followed the lessons as they were described, and supplemented them with something that would have covered the grammar systematically. I think Prado's grammar or Madrigal's Magic Key would have been good things to do with SwE. I have a copy of Spanish Without Toil, but I haven't worked that much with it. My general impression is that it is a more substantial course than SwE. There seems to be more explicit grammar explanation in the lessons, which would lessen the need for supplementing the course. steve Edited by sfuqua on 09 October 2012 at 9:23pm 4 persons have voted this message useful |
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