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Culture and Learning | ||
Tags: Cultural Identity | Fluency | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Cultural Experiences in Foreign Languages |  | |
| nimchimpsky Diglot Groupie Netherlands Joined 5399 days ago 73 posts - 108 votes  Speaks: Dutch*, English | Message 9 of 37 30 October 2012 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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What is there to talk about if you don't know anything about my culture? Language
learning would be pointless if you neglect cultural knowledge.
That is why a native-like level is not the holy grail (cultural reference) of language learning. You should also have a certain amount of knowledge besides perfect grammar and pronunciation. That knowledge doesn't have to be deep knowledge. No one in Anglo- Saxon culture will expect you to know every song of Justin Bieber, but they might expect you to know who Justin Bieber is and what kind of music he makes. We need this kind of shared background knowledge in order to communicate quickly and efficiently with each other. Anyone who doesn't know what the 'second world war' was is not a member of the Dutch linguistic community to me. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6944 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 10 of 37 30 October 2012 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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The original question dealt with the need to learn everything about the culture to be fluent in the associated language. Needing to know something (or even a lot) about the culture is different from needing to know everything about it.
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| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4656 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 11 of 37 30 October 2012 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
And your short answer was absolutely sufficient for the superficial question. But I think the answers about gradations of cultural knowledge are worthwhile and more thought-provoking than the initial question. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Bao Diglot Senior Member Germany tinyurl.com/pe4kqe5 Joined 5554 days ago 2256 posts - 4046 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: French, Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin | Message 12 of 37 30 October 2012 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
But you know who she is. 4 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Arekkusu Hexaglot Senior Member Canada bit.ly/qc_10_lec Joined 5169 days ago 3971 posts - 7747 votes Speaks: English, French*, GermanC1, Spanish, Japanese, Esperanto Studies: Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Estonian | Message 13 of 37 30 October 2012 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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Language is a system -- generally speaking, there is no problem learning how to put parts together to impart meaning, and understanding when others do so, without any knowledge of the culture. I certainly view language as a system of meaning management much more than as a receptacle for culture, so to speak.
As you become more sophisticated in your use of the language, then a better knowledge of culture is important (in some cultures more so than in others), but one could certainly learn a language to conversational level without knowing much about the culture of its speakers. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6944 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 14 of 37 30 October 2012 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Indeed. I was merely reacting to nimchimpsky who assigns a stronger link between cultural knowledge and fluency, and makes what I feel are strong statements on the matter (esp. the association of WWII as part of the Dutch speech community's collective memory/experience with their native language). For the record I knew nothing of Bieber until Psy came into my consciousness in the summer and the subsequent link of the two singers thanks to Scooter Braun.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4495 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 15 of 37 30 October 2012 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
Youtube and co. They damage your view on society. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||||||||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4677 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 16 of 37 30 October 2012 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | |||||||||||
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I think the 'social behavior' mentioned by druckfehler has a far greater relationship
to language than the outside markings of culture such as music, food, art, et al. I'd even say that this is important at the beginning levels of language learning, and not just at the advanced / fluent level. Spoken language is only one element of the way we communicate. There's also body language, facial expression, eye contact, tone and volume, touch, gesture, and so on. When we are immersed in a culture we start to see how these are all integrated. I also firmly believe that language is related to the way we think, though this is still a somewhat controversial assertion. So, for example ... I can learn to manipulate all the roots in Arabic, and memorize the 1001 ways to say 'how are you?' but it's not until I sit down at someone's home and have to exchange all these beautiful phrases with my host that I realize just how Arabic works. I studied French for years and never realized that, in Paris, people seem to half-sing the language and that there's a flirty subtext to so many interactions. In Rome I realized that the rhythms of Italian mimicked the rhythms of people's interactions with each other. In Mexico I saw how the formality of spoken Spanish imposed a formality on our initial meetings with people. You can memorize all the rules, and not quite understand these parts of how a language works. Edited by kanewai on 30 October 2012 at 10:21pm 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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