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English - a Scandinavian language? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5241 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 9 of 28 29 November 2012 at 12:22am | IP Logged | |||||
The Norwegian garpegenitiv is an import from Low German. 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5122 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 10 of 28 29 November 2012 at 12:34am | IP Logged | |||||
Thank you! 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| limey75 Senior Member United Kingdom germanic.eu/ Joined 4187 days ago 119 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Norwegian, Old English | Message 11 of 28 29 November 2012 at 1:14am | IP Logged | |||||
I did suspect it might be, but thanks for confirming it. I have a Low German map publication called Friedrich Hasselmann sien plattdüütsch Landkaart... That's another area where Nordic and English differ - the huge Low German input. If anything, the huge impact of Middle Low German on the Nordic languages has brought them and English *closer together* than they were, and has in a large measure given rise to the inflexional levelling that Scandinavian shares with English. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
 Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6491 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 12 of 28 29 November 2012 at 1:50am | IP Logged | |||||
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That construction also used in Dutch (and Afrikaans), but it was came to Scandinavia from Low German during the Hansa period, not from Dutch - the Dutch had their golden age later. It was also used in England in Elizabethan times - there are some anonymous masques called things like "Waters his love". "Williams his Love" and "Wilson his love". But I doubt that it is alive in Modern English anywhere. Edited by Iversen on 29 November 2012 at 1:51am 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| limey75 Senior Member United Kingdom germanic.eu/ Joined 4187 days ago 119 posts - 182 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Norwegian, Old English | Message 13 of 28 29 November 2012 at 2:12am | IP Logged | |||||
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Is there any evidence that the garpegenitiv was ever used in Danish or Swedish? Perhaps it's found in some Danish or Swedish dialects?
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| languagenerd09 Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom youtube.com/user/Lan Joined 4888 days ago 174 posts - 267 votes Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Mandarin, Japanese, Thai | Message 14 of 28 29 November 2012 at 2:49am | IP Logged | |||||
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Something that has always interested me, growing up in the city I have in the UK, is the connection in some areas between Modern
Scandinavian languages and the dialect of my city. For example we call children in my city "bairns" - where are the bairns nu? nu = now We refer to houses in my city as "hus" and pluralised as "huses" Some people personally refer to it as " my hus " or the alternative word makes an appearance when someone says " i'm gan hjem nu " There's also the term "mesel'" meaning "myself" which came from Norwegian "meg selv" The Norwegian word "lang" (meaning long) is also used in my city's dialect "that's a bit lang isn't it?" The colour brown is pronounced in my city as "broon" from the Norwegian "brun" We also use the word loft in British English - which I believe originated in Norwegian. I also believe the name of the town south of mine comes from an original Scandinavian term "søndre land" (Southern Land) which through the pronunciation gave the name to the city Sunderland 7 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| tractor Tetraglot Senior Member Norway Joined 5241 days ago 1349 posts - 2292 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, Spanish, Catalan Studies: French, German, Latin | Message 15 of 28 03 December 2012 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | |||||
Isn't that a slightly different construction? In Norwegian we have a construction with "hans" that is not "garpegenitiv": Olas bil = Ola sin bil = bilen hans Ola = bilen til (han) Ola 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Iversen Super Polyglot Moderator Denmark berejst.dk Joined 6491 days ago 9078 posts - 16473 votes Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian Personal Language Map | Message 16 of 28 04 December 2012 at 3:31am | IP Logged | |||||
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"Waters etc. his love" is the nearest thing you can get to the 'garpegenitiv' in a language without an unstressed reflexive pronoun. And the parallel til "bilen til (han) Ola" would be something like "(the) love to him Waters" - which is impossible now and always has been so. English has no need to use "to" here when it has got "of".
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