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Pimsleur’s target market - men | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes |  | |
| thecatat Newbie Thailand Joined 5760 days ago 26 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* | Message 1 of 31 09 December 2012 at 8:12am | IP Logged |
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I'm writing a review of Pimsleur's Thai. To do what I hope is a decent job, I'm jotting down the conversations.
When I finish I'll look at the realities of the advice, phrases used, method, etc. Doing so has also made it easy to note the chosen target market. The male persuasion. Thai courses often have a male focus so this is nothing out of the ordinary. But, isn't Pimsleur's script basically the same for each language? I've been contacting people, trying to discover the reason for the male focus. Pimsleur.com hasn't come back with a response and others have come back with nadda. So I thought I'd stick my neck out and ask here... Could the male focus be due to the signs of the times? Modern women travel extensively, work at high powered jobs and all, but back when the scripts were created, not so much. Btw: here's the breakdown I have so far. When the time comes I'll be more exact, but with 8 more units still to go, it's just ballpark. In each unit, the American male is in control of the conversation (roughly) around 195 times. 195 x 22 Units = 4290. Minus the times the American women speaks, 80, makes it around 4210. American man - 4210 phrases American woman - 80 phrases That's quite a difference. Note: I have not counted how many times the Thai woman responds (will do so later). While writing this review I've come to admire the method so the focus isn't an issue. But I'm curious. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5143 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes  Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 2 of 31 09 December 2012 at 8:37am | IP Logged |
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I have so far only used Pimsleur Russian, and I have no idea how the percentages go for male and female
Americans (actually I do not recall many American female speakers at all), but what caught my attention was that a lot of the dialogue was centred around chatting up a woman, she asking for money, and I remember wondering who this course was tailored for. As far as I recall, it got better through course 2 and 3, but given that most language learners are women it felt a bit strange that the material was so male focused. I do not know whether perhaps more individual learners are men - when I say that most language learners are women, I base that on the gender distribution in language classes at school and in the university and in evening classes. I have no data for the customers of language courses, but it would surprise me if those numbers were reversed so dramatically that it would make sense to make them so male centric. Perhaps you are right in that it was made at a time where almost only men had the economic power to buy the courses, and that they just never got around to modernise them. I don't know if it is also a cultural thing here. In Norway it would have been impossible to have that gender bias at any point in my lifetime, and I am 50 years old. There would have been an outcry. I remember from when I was a little girl that there was a big controversy over 1st class reading material where we had the typical "Father reads, mother is doing the dishes" sentences but all that was changed. We then had children's stories where father was at home and looking after the kids after work while mom was away studying business administration. I do not know whether there was the same concern in the US. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| hrhenry Octoglot Senior Member United States languagehopper.blogs Joined 4939 days ago 1871 posts - 3642 votes Speaks: English*, SpanishC2, ItalianC2, Norwegian, Catalan, Galician, Turkish, Portuguese Studies: Polish, Indonesian, Ojibwe | Message 3 of 31 09 December 2012 at 9:11am | IP Logged |
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I don't doubt that that is indeed the case for Western European languages, at least.
But, I have the Ojibwe course (30 lessons) and, while it goes through the usual "I would like...", "Would you like..." scenarios, some of the cultural aspects are a bit different, referencing pow wows, villages, lakes, rivers, etc. I'll have to go back and check, but I think the dialogues are a bit more... egalitarian, for lack of a better word. R. == 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| thecatat Newbie Thailand Joined 5760 days ago 26 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* | Message 4 of 31 09 December 2012 at 10:01am | IP Logged |
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Solfrid, I also noticed how many of the phrases were centred around women asking men for money. In Thailand it's sort of a rolling joke. But when I brought it up to a British friend who did Pimsleur's German, he said that he'd come away with the impression that American men were using Pimsleur's to run around the world propositioning foreign women. But he's funny (likes to joke) that way.
In the Thai course there are no American women or men speaking. The speakers are all Thai. But in the text it says, "and now you are an American woman"... or "an American man sits next to a Thai woman..." such as that. I read a review from a woman who was complaining about the male focus, but she finished the program because it works. One male friend mentioned how annoying it is to have to speak a woman's role a part of the time. So it does go both ways. hrhenry, I'd love to know if your version of the program is more equal in focus. Perhaps courses developed in later years are more modern? I'm starting on Pimsleur's Italian so I'll compare the scripts. I won't type it like I'm doing with the Thai though (I started out using Pimsleur's Thai for typing practice - I won't need the same with Italian). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| hobbitofny Senior Member United States Joined 6042 days ago 280 posts - 408 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Russian | Message 5 of 31 09 December 2012 at 10:40am | IP Logged |
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I think the course is directed at men traveling on business. At least the first level is mostly that way. I agree it is less so in 2 and 3.
By the end of lesson 12 in Russian you can ask a woman to dinner or buy her a drink. It touched on directions, but you would be missing some needed words to understand the answer. Small thinks like turn right or turn left... 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| thecatat Newbie Thailand Joined 5760 days ago 26 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* | Message 6 of 31 09 December 2012 at 11:10am | IP Logged |
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Men traveling on business does make sense. Odd that there aren't more cultural tips though. In Thailand you can really mess up if you don't know the basics of what not to do.
I talked to a Thai teacher today about going through some of the iffier phrases. She mentioned having to clean up student's Thai after they finished Pimsleur. I don't believe there's too much wrong but I'd like to get her opinion for my review. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6391 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 7 of 31 09 December 2012 at 11:51am | IP Logged |
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Isn't Pimsleur basically a pickup instruction course? I've only listened to a few of their courses, but they were all pretty much focusing on asking women out and getting them back to your place (where, presumably, body language will take over).
10 persons have voted this message useful | |
| thecatat Newbie Thailand Joined 5760 days ago 26 posts - 40 votes Speaks: English* | Message 8 of 31 09 December 2012 at 1:42pm | IP Logged |
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Ari, further into the course it switches to conversations with husbands and wives, how many kids, such as that.
3 persons have voted this message useful |
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