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Bakunin TAC 2013 Asian 鶴 / Żubr | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 4926 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes  Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 65 of 94 12 May 2013 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
Yes, the first few pages are always a surprise... :)
That's for sure. Most of those words are exotic or specialised. I leave it at having the (Thai) definitions in my intensive reading software FLTR (not available anymore, similar to LWT) and don't really bother studying vocabulary. Words that are important tend to come back, get stronger and are eventually learned.
I have terrible rates in Polish, often below 80%. It still works, but it's tiring and feels a lot more like studying than reading at 98%. Acquisition of new words is probably also slower because there are just so many new and only vaguely understood words. At 98% new words stand out, are usually pretty clear from context, and will stand out on their next encounter as well. At 80% new words are everywhere, often not clear from context, and are likely to be overlooked next time. But since I have nothing to loose, nothing to achieve (unlike with Thai, where I'm working on becoming proficient) and still get enough of the story to feel entertained, I'll keep going. Biały Kieł looks good. It's an easy reader, isn't it. Please let me (or us on the Żubr team thread) know how you like it. If it's fun to read and well made, I might order a few of those to take a break from 'real' books. Generally, detective and similar stories are excellent extensive reading material... captivating and often not too difficult. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 4926 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 66 of 94 17 May 2013 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Time for another update.
Listening: 174 (+5.5) Reading: 252 (+8.0) Speaking: 45 (+0.9) Writing: 27 (+1.5) Other: 82 (+4.1) Total: 580 Listening: The usual stuff: news podcasts, radio talk shows. Reading: I didn't finish ส้มสีม่วง; I enjoyed the first few chapters but then the story got strange. I stopped reading it when I noticed that I wasn't looking forward to reading on. I started a new book about a father and his son traveling in Northern Thailand. I also continued copying and then reading intensively the book about the big sting ray. It's not a book for kids, the main character has just finished school, failed the university entry exam and turns to fishing. I still encounter a lot of new words but clearly fewer than on the first few pages. Speaking: Phone. Writing: Some chatting on whatsapp. I also wrote two entries on lang-8 today. I don't write often (well, I write daily on whatsapp, but that's more like speaking, not like writing an essay or relating an experience), but still my writing seems to develop. Words usually just come to my mind, and if I get stuck, I try to say it differently. Other: Still working through the book on Thai language. Just started a chapter on poetry. Thai poetry is very different from German poetry, they seem to use totally different construction principles, e.g., linking vowel sounds of the last and the following first syllable of word groups, while changing consonant and tone. This wouldn't really work in German. Generally, I don't understand Thai poetry. There are usually lots of strange words, and often whole sentences don't make any sense to me. I hope poetry will become a bit clearer once I understand the construction principles better. Polish: Still hunting big game in Africa with Tomek. Another round of books in on my way, they should arrive here next week. I went for dinner at a Polish restaurant with a Polish friend of mine. The food was good and quite authentic. That Polish friend of mine suggested to go biking in the Polish-Ukrainian-Slovak border region (bieszczady) next year for ten days. It'll be a bit unfair language-wise because she is currently studying Russian, but to be able to listen in what's going on will still be useful. I hope we both find the time, it sounds like a great trip. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 4926 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 67 of 94 23 May 2013 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Time for another update.
Listening: 180 (+5.3) Reading: 259 (+7.3) Speaking: 47 (+1.7) Writing: 28 (+0.9) Other: 87 (+4.8) Total: 600 Listening: The usual stuff. Reading: I've continued with my book on travels in Northern Thailand (Lanna). Since I spent three months volunteering in Northern Chiang Mai province last year, the book evokes fond memories. I've also continued a bit with the other, more complex story on the giant sting ray. I've copied the first two chapters and read them intensively but I'll read the rest extensively. Speaking: Phone. I've scheduled two tutoring sessions for this weekend, for a change of pace. I've also connected to a handful of people on Verbling but this hasn't led to a chat yet. Writing: Chatting on whatsapp. Other: I started collecting connectors to improve perceived fluency. I got the idea from fluentczech's website. My strategy is to write down connectors I encounter and then internalize and use them. One by one. I've already found one or two which I've used successfully in conversations with friends. Radio talk shows or the chatty last three minutes of VoA's daily news podcast are the most promising places to find connectors. I'm also going to start up Anki again. There are a few spellings I never seem to get, and Anki will hopefully fix that. I'm also thinking of entering a few synonyms or other useful 'more advanced' words I never seem to recall in actual conversations. When I last used Anki, I grew to hate the daily review routine. I'll see how it goes this time. Polish: The books I ordered two weeks ago must have got stuck at custom's. Never mind, a day or three won't change much. I'm still reading Tomek in Africa which is good fun but clearly written in another age. I've also listened to one or two of realpolish's recordings (thanks, Mooby, for the link!); good stuff. If I have time I'll continue to work with those a bit over the next few weeks. Edited by Bakunin on 23 May 2013 at 10:44pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 5901 days ago 707 posts - 1219 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 68 of 94 23 May 2013 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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That looks like a good balance of input and output.
I sometimes wonder whether mixed skill training, covering the 4 basic skills simultaneously, has a better impact compared to focussing on one skill at a time. Does mixing active and passive studies reinforce understanding better than a linear approach? I've mixed reading and listening (i.e just lots of input), with good results so far. I have opportunities to converse more, but it's more of an effort to find willing partners. So for output, maybe writing lots is the answer. Does output cement understanding gained through input? If so, by how much? And at what stage on the A1>A2> road does more and more output prove most effective? I'm sure answers to these questions depend a lot on the aims and abilities of the person. Increasing the number of connectors is a good idea, and I try to include them on Anki. I have a love-hate relationship with Anki, right now I'm in love! Hope your new books arrive soon! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 4926 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 69 of 94 24 May 2013 at 10:36am | IP Logged | ||||||||
My opinion, and also my experience (but I know that I tend to assess my experience through the lens of my believes), is that output is of none or very limited use when it comes to improving comprehension. On the other hand, you need a decent amount of output and still lots of input when you want to improve your active skills. I think it's perfectly possible to get to a high level of comprehension (say, C2) with input activities alone (reading and listening). You certainly need to include lots of conversational input for C2, e.g., TV series, discussion forums, talk shows, call-in shows, movies etc. Speaking and writing, on the other hand, while still benefiting greatly from listening and reading need to be practiced on a regular basis. It is also very motivating to actually have conversations, to develop friendships and make all kinds of experiences with other people in your second language(s). That's actually what most language learners are aiming for. In terms of timing, my belief is that active skills can wait. It doesn't hold you back in terms of your comprehension abilities but gives you more breathing space and confidence once you start conversing. With Thai I'm at a level where I want to develop all four language skills, and I also have friendships in Thai. For me a mix of 80%-20% between input and output seems to work best in terms of my personality and interests, but 50%-50% would be fine as well. With Polish I'm perfectly ok to hang around in the input camp for quite some time to come; I want to be able to read normal books and understand most things on the radio or TV before I get back to speaking and writing, unless I have some pressing need to converse in Polish earlier, that is. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 5901 days ago 707 posts - 1219 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 70 of 94 24 May 2013 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Thanks, sound advice Bakunin!
I want to ultimately develop all 4 skills, and from your comments, there's no need to panic! I'm formulating a plan of study for the next few months. It will probably look something like this: 1. Continue daily intensive / extensive reading. No need to change anything here. 2. Continue + slightly increase my daily listening. Perhaps add another podacast 3. Speak when the opportunity comes. At the moment this is one conversation a week, lasting an hour. At the end of the year, if not later, start to actively look for conversation practice, maybe using Skype. 4. Write when I need to (e.g the occasional email). Not a daily activity yet. I may introduce intensive, but occasional, writing sessions. Perhaps pick a week in September and write lots. If my skills were reflected in my body, I would look like a strange creature with massive eyes (for reading) and a tiny mouth! That has to change! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Bakunin Diglot Senior Member Switzerland outerkhmer.blogspot. Joined 4926 days ago 531 posts - 1126 votes Speaks: German*, Thai Studies: Khmer | Message 71 of 94 24 May 2013 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Sounds like a good and balanced plan to me. But please shop around for more opinions; other people may have very different views on what needs to be done in which order.
Wow, that would be a strange creature! Don't forget to grow your ears… with huge eyes and ears your mouth will have no choice but to grow as well! 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Mooby Senior Member Scotland Joined 5901 days ago 707 posts - 1219 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Polish | Message 72 of 94 26 May 2013 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I am now a member of the Alfred Szklarski Book Club!
I had asked one of my friends to buy me a few books when she visited Poland, I wanted a copy of "Biały Kieł" by Jack London in particular. This she got for me, plus a couple of Szklarski books: "Tomek u Źródeł Amazonki" "Przygody Tomka Na Czarnym Lądzie" I now have 7 new books, which will keep me occupied for the rest of the year. Have your books arrived yet? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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