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Ezy Ryder’s endeavor (TAC’14-15 旅立ち、鵲、東亞) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4135 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes  Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 89 of 144 03 December 2014 at 1:00am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I apologize upfront for all the depressive thoughts below.
The last few weeks haven’t been my best. My hypersomnia’s been getting out of hand. One day I actually went to bed at 10PM, and got up at 4PM the next day. Which kinda throws off my sleep cycle, as I refuse to have an 8-hour day, I sometimes go to bed at 10PM, and sometimes at 8AM. There actually were days I haven’t seen the sun. Let’s assume 8 hours of sleep a day is “optimal,” and that I’ll live at least to 70 years of age (wishful thinking?). If I “slept” 10 excessive hours every day, I’d lose/waste over 20 years of my life. That’s just… terrifying. I think I’ve made a similar mistake I’ve made with Japanese. With Japanese, I’ve learnt only ~9k words (tops), and thought that’d be enough to go straight to extensive reading. I’ve managed to read ~4 books worth of text, and I gave up. I got the gist, perhaps even more than just the gist, but it was way less than enough. I fell into the trap I think many people fall into. I don’t remember learning English. Or, I don’t remember how I got from understanding only cognates, loan-words and international-ish words, to my current level. I have memories of the time I understood almost no English, and now I generally understand 97-99.x% depending on the particular material. I don’t remember much of what was in between. So, once I picked up a book in Japanese, and thought “I sorta understand what’s written here, etc.” I thought extensive reading would be enough to get me to, say the level I’m at in English. And maybe it could, after all I’ve spent way more time with English than with Japanese. But I didn’t have the patience to wait for it to “just happen,” nor the endurance, to suffer through really shaky understanding, at the laughable reading speed. With Chinese, I studied around 13k words (not sure if every single one was an actual word though), so maybe around 45% more, and I tried the Subs2SRS-like approach, and extensive reading of a book I’ve once read in my native tongue. But now I’ve realized something. That’s still not enough. You hear people saying 2k words is enough (like what an average Assimil teaches), others say 7-8k. Others say the number isn’t important, you won’t learn a language only learning words, etc… The problem with that is that it leads some people (like me), to stop too early, stooping to understanding merely the gist. And of course they’re right saying only learning words won’t teach you the language. But I doubt many people asking how many words they need to know for their goals, actually plan to just study vocabulary. Kinda like, if someone asked you “how many eggs do I need for this cake,” you wouldn’t really answer “you can’t bake a cake with eggs only.” I admit vocabulary isn’t the only thing holding me back, but not only is it my biggest problem, but also having enough vocabulary makes extensive activities more pleasant, and quicker, which in turn makes it even more enjoyable. So this time around, I’ll try to keep learning vocab until I’m sure it's not hindering my comprehension excessively. Though recognizing when it stops affecting it excessively, what excessively is, will probably be problematic. Also, I think I’ll focus more on the pronunciations, than reading characters. In the (sadly) unlikely case I’ll actually somehow end up studying in Taiwan, developing my listening comprehension might be a higher priority than reading (having difficulties with reading seems to be more comfortable than not understanding what everyone around is saying, although neither is desirable, of course). So I’m back to my Pinyin->Hanzi+Meaning deck, 100 new unguessable words a day. So far it’s going fairly smoothly. Yesterday I managed my 600 review backlog in half an hour, so perhaps once the reviews start piling up, I’ll be able do them in around an hour, to an hour and a half. Edited by Ezy Ryder on 03 December 2014 at 1:07am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4135 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 90 of 144 19 December 2014 at 11:05am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I wanted to wait with this till the 31st, but since everybody's writing their summaries now, I guess I'm gonna conform. How much of a difference could I make in these two weeks anyway?
2014 Summary Let's start with the goals:
Well, on the one hand I've studied up to 13k words, but then again, I probably forgot quite a few of them by now, due to dropping Anki in favor of reading.
Just 3-4k, so close, but no cigar.
Well, technically, at one point I've studied the whole dictionary (except for the flora and fauna sections, as I've mentioned) passively. But since then I've forgotten most of the words, as I've dropped that deck, too. Now, let's compare to 2013. 2013-~8k new words-380h in Anki-1 book read in Japanese 2014-~16k new words-303h in Anki-Nearly 3 books read in Japanese So, it seems I've managed to double the number of new words, while decreasing study time by 20%. That's a 150% improvement in efficiency. And now, for something completely different. A bit less tangibly; the beginning of the year was slow. Then, I've fallen into the trap of switching to extensive reading too early, in Japanese. Got back to studying on May 31st, IIRC. Learnt ~13k words in Mandarin, and fallen into the same trap again; this time a bit later, and with Mandarin. Then I gave a Subs2SRSesque method a try. Recently, I've decided to take a breather, to gather my strength for the next year. Meanwhile, a slight wanderlust with JSL (Japanese Sign Language). But as I wanted to take a break from Anki, I’m using handwritten (in Japanese at least) flashcards and the Leitner System. It’s quite fun. I learnt fingerspelling in one day, written an app in C++ to practice it at an adjustable pace, try to learn at least 20 new signs a day, and occasionally read a bit about the grammar; but it’s much more laid back. For example, yesterday I’ve learnt only 15 new signs, and I don’t even hate myself for that. I don’t know what makes it so enjoyable; how different this approach is to Anki, handwriting in Japanese, how different the language itself is from anything I’ve learnt so far, or the fact I’m learning a new language not through English, or God forbid, Polish, but Japanese. Making 20 new flashcards and reviewing all boxes due that day takes 2-3h, yet after finishing, I can’t wait till tomorrow’s sessions. Too bad it’s so much less efficient. Learning a 100 new Mandarin words would take like 10h. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4135 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 91 of 144 19 December 2014 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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31日まで待とうと思ってた、でも 皆が今あらすじを書いてて、 我慢するべきがないらしい。 いずれその二週間に、どんな進行が可能なん だ？
2014年あらすじ 目的で始めよう：
じゃ、 およそ13ｋ語が勉強したらしい、 がアンキを捨て多読にし、たくさんのが忘れ たかも。
3-4k語だけ。
まあ、 ある時点で辞典を勉強しちまった（自然以外 に）。 でもそのデックも捨て、大半が忘れそうだ。 2013年に比べて。 2013-~8k新単語-アンキで380時間- 日本語本の一冊を読んだ 2014-~16k新単語-アンキで303時間- 日本語本のほとんど三冊を読んだ つまり、 勉強時間の八割で、 新単語量の二倍ができたらしい。 効率を150％でアップした。 具体的な記述以外に。 最初は遅かった。 そして、日本語で早すぎて多読だけにしちゃ った。 31日5月ぐらいアンキに戻った。 あとで、官話で13k語を勉強して、 またもや同じ失敗しちゃった（せめてもっと 遅く）。 そしてSubs2SRS的な方法を使ってみた。 最近来年ためにやる気を集めに、 ちょっとした休みにした。 同時日本手話とふざけてる。 がアンキを使うの気が向かなくて、 自分で単語帳を手書きして（少なくとも日本 語で）、レイトナーシステムを使う。 なかなか楽しいんだぞ。 指文字を一日で覚えて、 C++で練習用アプリを作って、 毎日20語新身振りを勉強したり、 時々文法入門書を読んだりする； ただしアンキより絶対ストレス無し。 例えば、 昨日15語新身振りだけを勉強したが、 自分を大嫌いすらしてないよ。 なんでこんなに楽しいって分からない； ストレス無しのか、 日本語で手書きするのか、 今まで経験した言語との違いか、 それとも単に英語かポーランド語より、日本 語で勉強するのか。 一日の勉強は2-3時間が掛かるなのに、 終わって、明日の勉強を楽しみにする。 情けないことに、 割りと効かない。 100語の勉強は10時間さえが掛かれそうんで。 Edited by Ezy Ryder on 19 December 2014 at 12:08pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| kraemder Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4970 days ago 1497 posts - 1648 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Japanese | Message 92 of 144 28 December 2014 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I have to say I'm shocked that you could learn 9k words and struggle with reading. I'm wondering if it's just
that you're not finding the right kind of reading material. Anyway, your posts are inspiring. I wish I had gotten into Japanese at your age. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4135 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 93 of 144 28 December 2014 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Kraemder Thanks for stopping by. Yeah, when I first got into 自学の語学 so to speak, I thought
it (or even less) would be enough. Had to learn it the hard way. Though, it might be more of a personal preference kinda thing. Some people here seem to be able to enjoy reading at relatively low comprehension levels (I think Serpent said she can enjoy reading even at ~50% text coverage, IIRC). The Koohii lounge as you've probably noticed tends to approach the other extremity. I remember reading a post where the author has said they've recently surpassed 20-25k (don't remember exactly), and their next goal is gonna be 28k. I also remember seeing people, perhaps almost complain, about seeing a new word every page or two. Not 1-2 words per page, but a word every 1-2 pages - mind=blown. Sorta puts things into perspective. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Zimena Tetraglot Groupie Norway Joined 4378 days ago 75 posts - 146 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, English, German, Spanish Studies: Czech, Mandarin | Message 94 of 144 30 December 2014 at 5:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Hi there. I just wanted to drop by and say that I've been looking around your log a bit, and it's very inspiring to see
how you work and improve constantly. I'm looking forward to following your progress from now on. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Ezy Ryder Diglot Senior Member Poland youtube.com/user/Kat Joined 4135 days ago 284 posts - 387 votes Speaks: Polish*, English Studies: Mandarin, Japanese | Message 95 of 144 30 December 2014 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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@Zimena Thanks for the kind words! Glad to know you'll be following my log (as I'll be yours).
Everybody seems to state their goals for TAC'15 now, so I thought I'd join. I'm gonna have two goals, one vague, and one a bit more tangible. Plus one optional goal. Vague goal: Get to a level where I can move to Taiwan and study there (not necessarily in Mandarin, but of course that would be preferred). Tangible goal: 20,000 words studied. Currently I'm giving LWT (Learning with Texts) a try, trying to create ~100 terms a day (now only at 205 though...), which should be enough to get to 20k by October, even if I don't finish or take days off occasionally. Optional goal: Be able to write 3,000 Traditional characters by hand. It's main purpose is for me to have a somewhat fun way of chillaxed studying, which should still improve my level, at least a bit. I'm not sure how much use I'll have for it. Currently at 456 characters. And to make this post a bit more interesting, here's my handwriting (from my Anki reviews, it's not an actual text): Link I know it probably looks terrible, but in my defense, I've been diagnosed with dysgraphia, and I've been trying to write the characters using an approximation of the Running Script, at full speed. So that it's more realistic. EDIT: I've been trying to add an image to this post for very nearly an hour, and it fricking keeps deleting parts of the link (namely, the .com or .ly/ part). So I gave up, and added a regular bitly link. Edited by Ezy Ryder on 30 December 2014 at 8:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Warp3 Senior Member United States forum_posts.asp?TID= Joined 5321 days ago 1419 posts - 1766 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Spanish, Korean, Japanese | Message 96 of 144 31 December 2014 at 1:35am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Do you have any Japanese TAC 2015 goals as well or are you mostly focusing on Mandarin
for 2015? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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