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Kixi TAC ’13 Sakura 桜 Jpn/Esp Log | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| kixi Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4127 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 1 of 41 02 March 2013 at 5:44pm | IP Logged |
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Hey everybody,
Background ~ I studied German and French in school for 3 years and 2 years of Finnish as a hobby. I also attempted Japanese and Russian at the same time, leading to mega burnout within the first 2 months. All languages fell by the wayside as I came of working and drinking age but I never lost interest. I began entry level Japanese classes in October, with the aim of going to Japan at the end of 2013. While I'm thankful for the help breaking down the basics, I find the classes to be incredibly slow moving for my goal. I plan to be somewhere in the intermediate scope, obviously I'd like to be the higher end of that spectrum. During Christmas break I decided to step it up, found myself some learning resources/blogs/methods and eventually some like minded people here :D After learning kana, I began RTK a week ago, aiming to complete 25+ per day. I also began genki, jpod101 and assembling anki decks. Due to having 4 Japanese exams on Thursday, I haven't progressed much with the courses and I fell behind a day with RTK. It's shocking how much harder anki reviews become when you fall behind, not so much the number of reviews, moreso my memory. Kanji I had down were just *poofed* from my brain, guess you really do have to stick to the spacing schedule for the recall to work. I'm at 140 kanji and should be done with the first 200 by the end of the weekend. Since I'm following the level guide here http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/04/18/what-level- are-you/ I want to finish up genki and 100 sentences to progress to elementary stage in the next week or 2. Edited by kixi on 16 April 2013 at 7:40am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kixi Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4127 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 2 of 41 03 March 2013 at 5:08pm | IP Logged |
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I'm at 180 kanji and planning to smush the last 20 into my brain by the end of the day.
I've encountered a problem, possibly due to my own ignorance and haste... Those goddamn reviews build up quick! Friday night i was faced with 60 something reviews (or possibly total including new cards, I don't fully understand anki yet) and then Saturday there were 90! Since I'm manually writing each one out as I review this took 40 mins, induced a headache and I ragequit closed the program with a few remaining. At this point I'm wondering if i should take break days, where i learn no new kanji but focus solely on reviews, say every 200 i take a break? Or perhaps I slow it down to just 20 kanji a day, hoping to ease the workload. There is a problem with the second option, I'm moving to america in a couple months, where I won't have this book (or the desire to purchase) and I will be busy as hell setting up a new life. So aside from ambition and desire to be rid of this book, there is a practical time constraint on learning them. In other news my jpod101 free trial ran out, leaving a lackluster learning resource. I shall work through genki and 100 sentences only then perhaps buy the $10 subscription for a month. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kixi Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4127 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 3 of 41 03 March 2013 at 6:06pm | IP Logged |
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Okay I've figured something out. My original plan was to know each kanjis stroke order
and translation from memory, then review them all again with pronunciations/jpn vocab a second time and take my time with it. I've been clicking 'again' until I fully know them. I think I have to cheat and just click good when I know the stroke order and am familiar with them, not when I implicitly know translation. It's just too many things to memorize at once with this speed. Since I'm going to be spending many months writing sentences and learning how to use each one, I should have plenty of chances in the future to rote memorize the translations to perfect recall. Also at some point I'm going to spend some time on just the radicals using this http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/what_is_kanji.htm since I've read that they are used to find kanji in dictionaries and are crucial to understanding formation of kanji. From what I've seen so far, I don't like the organisation of RTK and would have preferred to learn radicals at the start. Also I thought these were supposed to be 2000 most frequent kanji? Maybe 'nitrate' and 'carp' have other meanings that are frequent? Edited by kixi on 04 March 2013 at 1:26am 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hasi Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 5898 days ago 120 posts - 133 votes  Speaks: German*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 4 of 41 03 March 2013 at 7:04pm | IP Logged |
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It is nice to know there is another one going through RTK right now :)
I initially started out with 50 kanji a day, but like you, the reviews built up quickly and I just didn't like it too much. So I cut it down to 30 and I feel good with the pace. What I noticed is that it is a lot easier for me if I just study for 10 minutes then take a break to do something else before getting back to kanji. Breaking them up into shorter sessions certainly helps me a lot and helps me stay focused. There are actually a few variations on RTK out there, for example there is RTK lite which only covers a bit over a 1000 kanji which are included in JLPT2 (the old one). more information I am personally using the deck from JALUP which is about 100 "useless" words deleted and includes a Japanese keyword as well. I also use the Lazy Kanji Mod V2 deck which includes the story on the front side of the card, therefore making reviews a lot easier. maybe some of those links are useful for you. In general I can say that it helps spreading out reviews throughout the day and that I at least only bother with knowing how the kanji is written and its keyword. One of the reasons why I am using RTK is because I know from studying kanji in a classroom setting that, for me at least, studying stroke order, meaning and reading as a bit of an overkill for me. Edited by Hasi on 03 March 2013 at 7:07pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| kixi Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4127 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 5 of 41 03 March 2013 at 8:19pm | IP Logged |
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Aww, thank you!
I fully agree with you on the pacing and overkill thing, 50 per day is just too many especially when you care for stroke order. How many are you at? I'm going to focus on learning the kanji itself (stroke order and how it looks only) and not fret over keywords (especially not stories since they don't help). Then I'm going to focus on meanings and uses because it's all a bit too much and it's becoming a chore. So if i see it and can write it at this stage (if im lucky recall the word) then i shall consider it 'learnt'. I downloaded a bunch of decks for the uses of rtk kanji in sentences and pronunciations/meanings to study with after. Might also do the sentence challenge. EDIT: http://japaneselevelup.com/2011/01/29/how-to-use-anki-to-mas ter-japanese-part- 1- kanji/ i shall do this, just learn how to write the kani then go along and learn the japanese word for them, as he says, the English does kind of merge. Anyway real beginner stuff: http://www.tofugu.com/2010/10/01/the-100-most-important-japa nese-words/ http://learnjapanese.com/lessons/ http://www.japanese-language.aiyori.org/ http://nihongosiam.com/yamachapi/download/kyozai.html#kana i really like these next 2 and plan to learn them all! http://www.elanguageschool.net/japanese/words-phrases http://learnjapanese.com/articles/slang-expression-list i'd say this contains some higher level stuff: http://www.maggiesensei.com/index-for-mini-lessons/ http://www.kobejournal.com/Nihongo/00index.html and an audiobook link i came across although it'd be passive only since im not very good yet: http://rtkwiki.koohii.com/wiki/Audiobooks sorry they are not in link form :/ Edited by kixi on 03 March 2013 at 8:28pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hasi Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 5898 days ago 120 posts - 133 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 6 of 41 03 March 2013 at 8:40pm | IP Logged |
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I actually think that the stories are important and that this is what makes RTK so special I noticed that I can recall
the ones where I actually visualized the stories a lot better compared to the ones where I don't. The same thing is true for kanji that are primitives of others, ie the ones that occur over and over again. The same is true for kanji that I have to look up when I encounter them in context and have to look them up only to realize that I should know that one. Failing really helps to make them stick. As far as stroke order is concerned, I think after a few 100 or so you just kind of get a feel for it. Particularly where primitives/radicals can occur in a kanji. E.g. I have noticed that 言 when used as a primitive seems to only ever appear on the left side of a kanji but never on the right. I am currently at 730 and I started a bit over two weeks ago. so far I have had times where I thought that is wasn't working out but I am trusting in anki to make sure I don't forget. I hope you will be able to find the right way to study kanji that fits you best soon. I know that it took me a while to find a method that (hopefully) works for me. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| kixi Groupie United Kingdom Joined 4127 days ago 40 posts - 40 votes Studies: Japanese | Message 7 of 41 03 March 2013 at 11:48pm | IP Logged |
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I think the stories would be helpful if you can visualize things but I cant, I just see
black. Another thing is that the stories themselves are confusing and nonsensical. One minute it's glue the next its street, wait its all squished and looks like needle. Oh that is needle. okay this ones needle too, no its not its nail, which is the same as glue and street. What was the original word, glue or street? This one looks like ten with a slanty bit that's used in right and left. This next one is ten, nope it's needle except squished. Example of dumb stories: petition A meadow and a head are all we are given to work with in the kanji for petition. Since the key word already suggests something like a formal request made of some higher power, let us imagine a gigantic Wizard-of-Oz head located in the middle of the flowery meadow we used in the last frame. Then just picture people kneeling hopefully before it, petitioning for whatever it is they want. (The scarecrow wanted brains, the lion, courage, and the tin man a heart. What about you?) lol wut? are you on drugs? lively When we speak of a lively personality or a lively party, we immediately think of a lot of chatter. This kanji depicts the idea of lively by having tongues babble and splash around like μowing water. if someones tongue splashes at me, im gonna run a mile away, then it wont be lively. flowing water from the mouth? you mean vomit? Anyway 730... darn! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Hasi Diglot Senior Member Austria Joined 5898 days ago 120 posts - 133 votes Speaks: German*, English Studies: Japanese | Message 8 of 41 04 March 2013 at 6:11pm | IP Logged |
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I say what you mean. I only have the German version of the big so I cannot really see anything about the original but
I used a lot of stories from RevTK. Then again I actively see the story every time I review which for some really makes them stick more. Then again I also HATE the fact that some kanji have different meanings when they are being used as primitives which is why I tend to stick to the original mean. Also some, like 十 being needle just tend to stick because you use them over and over again. Then again, if you aren't using a the stories to remember when are you using Heisig to begin with? maybe the "normal" way would be better for you? A book I used, and my boyfriend is using now, to study kanji is Kanji Look and Learn. It is the 500-something most frequently used kanji and also includes mnemonic stories and pictures. here is a sample :) 1 person has voted this message useful |
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