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Resources for advanced study of Spanish

  Tags: Resources | Spanish
 Language Learning Forum : Language Programs, Books & Tapes Post Reply
29 messages over 4 pages: 1 2 3
iguanamon
Pentaglot
Senior Member
Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
Joined 5022 days ago

2237 posts - 6731 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

 
 Message 25 of 29
10 March 2013 at 2:37pm | IP Logged 
dbag wrote:
I think the problem occurs when people only use courses, and have no interest in actually using the language.


My point exactly! You said it better than I did, dbag. I don't advocate going "course-less". I just advocate using multiple resources at the same time as you are using a course and not depending on said course exclusively. As I said, a course is an important tool, just not the only one. The problem seems to come in when the focus is too much one way or the other. Too much course focus tends to make learners look at the language as a thing, to be studied, rather than a means of communication.

I'd be happy if I saw a post on the forum where someone said, "I want to progress in my Spanish. So, I'm going to be doing "Assimil Using Spanish" (or FSI), writing on lang8, doing a language exchange on skype, listening to Democracy Now while reading the transcript (and listening without the transcript), and reading as much native material as I can." That's a good balance and a highly productive way to learn Spanish outside of the TL countries. The problem comes in when folks think that just doing the course(s) is enough.




4 persons have voted this message useful



s_allard
Triglot
Senior Member
Canada
Joined 5190 days ago

2704 posts - 5425 votes 
Speaks: French*, English, Spanish
Studies: Polish

 
 Message 26 of 29
10 March 2013 at 6:36pm | IP Logged 
Belle700 wrote:
...

Well, what I consider advanced is the ability to carry on conversations with minimal stumbling.

Again, I'd like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread, the input I have received has been very helpful.

I don't intend to be picky here, but I want to address this issue of what we mean by advanced and with reference to the exchange between @dbag and @iguamon. The ability to carry on conversations with minimal stumbling does not really say much beyond some indication of fluency (in the technical sense of the word.)

Without wanting to drag up the CEFR model of language proficiency assessment that addresses this very issue, I think the fundamental idea of advanced speaking proficiency is the ability to interact in a linguistically sophisticated manner on a wide range of subjects. It's not a question of knowing a lot about many subjects, it's more the ability to approach them with your given linguistic resources.

I should point out that what may seem like idle chitchat can be just as challenging, if not more so, than a lofty discussion about politics.

The problem most of us have at what I call the subadvanced level is that we still have difficulty putting all the right words in the right form and in the right order quickly enough to sustain a conversation at a level that we would like. If you are searching for words, tripping over verb forms, mangling the prepositions and wondering when to throw in the imperfect of the subjunctive, it's not going to be smooth and accurate.

I believe that you have to use any learning tool that has a track record of effectiveness. Classroom courses, independent learning materials, tutoring and coaching, language exchanges, flashcards, etc. can all be useful. For me, the best is working with a tutor, but that is just one option. I should also mention that a stay in the country of the target language is undoubtedly very helpful.

1 person has voted this message useful



AndrewW
Newbie
United States
Joined 4767 days ago

29 posts - 60 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Spanish

 
 Message 27 of 29
11 March 2013 at 4:44am | IP Logged 
iguanamon wrote:
dbag wrote:
I think the problem occurs when people only use
courses, and have no interest in actually using the language.


My point exactly! You said it better than I did, dbag. I don't advocate going "course-
less". I just advocate using multiple resources at the same time as you are
using a course and not depending on said course exclusively. As I said, a course
is an important tool, just not the only one. The problem seems to come in when the
focus is too much one way or the other. Too much course focus tends to make learners
look at the language as a thing, to be studied, rather than a means of
communication.

I'd be happy if I saw a post on the forum where someone said, "I want to progress in my
Spanish. So, I'm going to be doing "Assimil Using Spanish" (or FSI), writing on lang8,
doing a language exchange on skype, listening to Democracy Now while reading the
transcript (and listening without the transcript), and reading as much native material
as I can." That's a good balance and a highly productive way to learn Spanish outside
of the TL countries. The problem comes in when folks think that just doing the
course(s) is enough.



I agree with this completely. I think programs like Assimil and FSI are great, but
sometimes it seems here that people fall into a trap of wanting a theoretical "Assmil
v2" or "FSI Advanced".

So while I agree that courses are still useful at this level, I think you're doing it
wrong if all you're doing is holding hands with a structured course. It's time to
enter the real world or risk getting stuck in the "perpetual beginner" trap.
3 persons have voted this message useful



James29
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5135 days ago

1265 posts - 2113 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: French

 
 Message 28 of 29
12 March 2013 at 12:35am | IP Logged 
I don't read every post on this forum (I actually read very few of the non-Spanish related ones), but I have never seen anyone asking for advice on "intermediate" or "advanced" Spanish say or even suggest that they use ONLY courses and don't use or want to use native materials, language exchanges, converse in real life Spanish, etc. Who are these people that want to use ONLY courses? I don't think they exist for the major languages like Spanish/French/German/Russian/Chinese, etc.

What typically happens is someone asks something like "I have finished Assimil With Ease and I am not as fluent as I hoped. I have problems with my comprehension and I stumble over my words when I speak. Can someone suggest a good follow up course to Assimil?" and then the response/advice is often "don't do an advanced course, jump into native materials."

I am a believer in using advanced courses simply because they make the learning process easier and more efficient. Courses make my use of native materials, skype talks and trips much more enjoyable. They advance my Spanish MUCH faster than using native materials. I think most learners are like this... they want to use courses in order to use native materials and/or use the language in real life.
7 persons have voted this message useful



luke
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 6965 days ago

3133 posts - 4351 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Esperanto, French

 
 Message 29 of 29
12 March 2013 at 2:28am | IP Logged 
A free book I found in the iPad store that I started reading today is Do You Speak English (Versión en Español) which is actually pretty easy Spanish, but for the advanced student, it's nice to have a book you can burn your way through. I read 50 pages in a couple of hours today. It's the author's experience learning 12 languages. He has some tips at the end of each chapter. He doesn't claim to be a master polyglot or anything. It's just a humble, down to earth autobiographical experience. The main interesting part about the book for me is that it is in Spanish, so it good practice, and the topic is about language learning (particularly aimed at a native English speaker), which was insightful for me.

On the other topic of courses, FSI Basic Spanish is a kick ass course. If one can do all the drills quickly without error, chances are one can speak grammatically correctly with facility. At least, that's my experience. One has the core of the language. All the common verbs and irregular verbs, the spoken tenses, adjective agreement, pronouns, reflexive verbs, all the basic stuff, which doesn't mean you can read Don Quixote with ease, but it does mean you are in a position to take off in an immersion environment (self made or real).

Edited by luke on 12 March 2013 at 2:31am



3 persons have voted this message useful



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