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Hitchhiker’s guide to the Chinese Galaxy | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes  Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 97 of 230 16 July 2013 at 7:22pm | IP Logged |
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Well, finally my first "baffling" grammatical structure: 起来 (qi3lai2)
It could be I'm just not understanding the explanation of Basic Spoken Chinese, but at first glance it does not appear to be that clearly explained. Again, it could be it's just over my head at this CURRENT time. IT's happened many times that something I didn't get at first then becomes clearer and the explanation makes sense. I did some quick (not exhaustive) research online and found a couple of explanations, but one is equally laconic and the other suggests the usage of 起来 can be quite difficult for beginners. I suspect it is one of those things I have seen in every language I have studied where it may only be grasped by massive input. From what I have read in both my course and online, it seems that among its many uses, 起来 is attached to verbs of sense (hearing, listening, seeing), to suggest how an action is PERCEIVED by a speaker. 你看起来很瘦。 You are looking thin (to the speaker). But it's also apparently used with other verbs that are clearly not of perception like 学 ， 做 . Now this could be a minority of verbs, but since I have so little input yet in Chinese, of course I'm out in the ocean here. One of the sources stated 起来 can also be used to describe the beginning of an action. BSC did not go over this usage of 起来 yet. But bottom line, I'm not very sure of any of it, and I certainly have no confidence in using this construction yet. I will probably ask my tutor friday, but if any native speaker reads this, or a more advanced chinese learner does, I would enjoy hearing any tips you may have. 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| dtvrij74_ Diglot Groupie United States danielhonline.cRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 3992 days ago 51 posts - 62 votes Speaks: Mandarin, English* Studies: French, German, Russian, Norwegian | Message 98 of 230 16 July 2013 at 7:45pm | IP Logged |
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One usage is 看起来 which you use to express what you think will happen.
看起来要下雨了 *staring at the sky* It looks like it's going to rain. With verbs like 学, you use it to express something that is the opposite of what you thought. 中文看起来很简单但是学起来有点困难 Chinese looks simple but (unexpectedly,) learning it is a little hard/tough. Something (the Chinese language) looks simple, but it is the learning that was unexpectedly not simple for the speaker. So, you put learning + 起来. Here, you also have 看起来, Chinese looks easy So, basically, For that kind of sentence, the general formula is: Something 看起来 adjective 但是 verb 起来 antonym-of-adjective. Something seems adjective, but verb'ing it is unadjective. Hope that helps! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 99 of 230 16 July 2013 at 8:11pm | IP Logged |
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Aha, well I do understand the spirit of the usage, I don't quite grasp it completely yet
but I can now understand the concept of "appearance of an action vs execution of action". Your explanation helped me because now thinking back to the explanation in the course book, that is what I "felt" some of the sentences said, but I could not express it or even describe it myself... it is strange you know? But you put it into words so now I have something to start from. Great, thank you! 2 persons have voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 100 of 230 18 July 2013 at 7:49pm | IP Logged |
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Unit Completion Entry 29
Cycle Two (Lessons 7-26) Book 1 Lesson 8 New Practical Chinese Reader 7.18.2013 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 101 of 230 18 July 2013 at 8:09pm | IP Logged |
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Ok so I entirely forgot my WPE for 7.12.2013. Reading the last weeekly progress update
I see that the goals I set out for that next week I have met... but it took me TWO weeks not one! I don't know why the last week flew by like if it was only three days or so, that is pretty disturbing. And I use disturbing because I can't really remember that well what I did with my languages... I did a lot of talking and practice and watching tv for sure, but the time is a total blur and that is rare for me. I do know I worked a ton of hours so that is probably why I did not have as much time or energy on study, this week on the other hand I have done great. So, for the sake of not missing one week of updates for the first time, I will post that report here now, even though it is almost a week overdue: - - - - - - Weekly Progress Entry 17 7.12.2013 Well the week from the 5th to the 12th kicked my butt a little because I was so occupied I really lost a bit of track of my progress here. I started Unit 6 of Basic Spoken Chinese, and completed Lesson one on this week. It was a fairly short and straightforward lesson, but it is clear that with the workload from NPCR, it will take me around a week to complete a lesson of BSC, whereas before I could do two lessons a week. That's ok, I guess. If I could go just a little faster I can complete BSC somewhere in October, instead of November, because I want to begin Intermediate Spoken Chinese at least two months before the end of the year. We will see. I may ask for a week or two off from work if necessary, this is more important to me know than money. I want to complete ISC somewhere in the spring of 2014. Did Lesson 7 NPCR, and also took a week for it... I also want to go just a tad faster here, I want to be done with book one certainly by the end of August, then do Book two in October-November and start book three at the very end of the year or right at new years, that sounds like a nice goal. Then I can do books 3 and 4 in the first half of 2014, hopefully as preparation for a stay in China. Chatacters have suffered a little from my lack of time, new character acquisition that is. But I have been reviewing quite a bit recently and it was a needed review because I still don't remember some strokes of many characters. My friday meeting with my tutor went great, but my head still spins after one hour of Chinese, Chinese, and more Chinese sound, vocab, syntax, and word order. The head- spinning feeling is a good thing of course, it means the mind got a good strenuous work-out that will hopefully make it stronger and better at the task next time, little by little building up the system needed to perform the act of speaking Mandarin. I was well prepared for lesson 7 so everything was rather smooth, so smooth that she asked to go on to lesson 8 but I told her I had not really studied it. That is why this next week I want to do Lesson 8 completely and at least get some exposure to lesson 9, then finish it in the weekend. For the next week my goal is to continue Unit 6 BSC maybe complete Lesson 3, and NPCR Lesson 8 and maybe 9. Characters I definitely MUST begin learning the new 100 set of characters. Till the next WPE on 7.19.2013!! Edited by outcast on 18 July 2013 at 8:14pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 102 of 230 22 July 2013 at 4:26pm | IP Logged |
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Unit Completion Entry 30
Unit 6 Lesson 2 Basic Spoken Chinese 7.21.2013 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 103 of 230 23 July 2013 at 6:55pm | IP Logged |
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Weekly Progress Entry 18
7.19.2013 Good week in my Chinese studies. I completed lesson 8 of NPCR, and am very close to completing lesson 9, probably later today or tomorrow. In BSC almost done with lesson 2 (finished Sunday after the 19th), and am well to finish lesson three by Thursday. More importantly, I have made great strides with the characters in both reviewing and learning new ones... up to 875 today. Should be done with my current 100 batch by the weekend for sure if not earlier. My last tutor session went great, my head still spins after 40 minutes of intense back and forth Chinese listening and output, BUT, I can think a little better on my two feet now when unexpected questions pop up, and I can understand my tutor a little better. I even got to grasp the main topic when she digressed, though I still don't understand individual sentences much less parts of them, I sort of know what she is talking about when she is talking about it. The language sounds much less foreign to me (I had mentioned this a few weeks ago, but now it is even more evident), and I think now I am starting to get an ear for word boundaries, even when I don't know the word. This is tricky to say because I could easily be wrong, but the main point is that the language doesn't seem to "run and run" as it used to. I can detect minute pauses and the like. The grammar is going well, the last couple of lesson are not grammar heavy and deal more with vocabulary usage and the like. I have been introduced to verb-object compound verbs and how to used them (it reminds me a bit of German separable prefix verbs), and two paired conjunctions, which to me seem quite elegant and common sense. I have decded to push the pedal and reach 900 characters by Friday, and to finish Unit 6 BSC because lesson four is very short. I will do lesson 10 in NPCR, and I do not meet my tutor till monday because she is on vacation, so we will practice lessons 9 and 10 then. Till the next WPE on 7.26.2013!! 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| outcast Bilingual Heptaglot Senior Member China Joined 4761 days ago 869 posts - 1364 votes Speaks: Spanish*, English*, German, Italian, French, Portuguese, Mandarin Studies: Korean | Message 104 of 230 27 July 2013 at 9:32pm | IP Logged |
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Unit Completion Entry 31
Unit 6 Lesson 3 Basic Spoken Chinese 7.26.2013 1 person has voted this message useful |
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