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Continue or Surrender? (Greek or German) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Advice Center |  | |
| Darklight1216 Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4911 days ago 411 posts - 639 votes  Speaks: English*, French Studies: German | Message 1 of 8 30 April 2013 at 10:57am | IP Logged | ||
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I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my language learning and I'm hoping that perhaps someone with more experience can help me.
I've long wanted to learn how to read Koine Greek so I got a couple of books about a year or 2 ago and I studied them alongside French . I didn't get very far in it, but I was able to read the first chapter of 1 John (only 10 verses, if you're not familiar) and some other paragraph sized passages. Then I reached a point where I couldn't advance so I decided to take a break for a few months. Lately I've picked it back up. I've been reviewing some of the things that I learned and I pretty much cleaned my library out of their Ancient and New Testament Greek resources, but I'm running into a different problem: boredom. I hate having to look in the dictionary for every other word. It's slow and boring. Somewhere along the line while I was (and still am) learning French I decided that I would study German one day. Now more than ever I find German to be very tempting, and I'm not the type to waste my time wandering aimlessly from language to language, but never bothering to master any(sorry, everyone who is!). There are so many German resources at the libraries I frequent; it has an enormous internet and literary presence, (plus it would probably look better on my resume) and I feel my French is at the point that I can devote more time to another living language. On the other hand, I really would like to learn Greek, and if I stop now I know I'm going to have to pick it back up again. It might be in a year or ten years, but I'll have to go back to it and by then I will have lost what I've gained thusfar. So can anyone give me their opinion? Should I persever through this stage in Greek or should I take the easier way out and start German (just in time for the 6wc)? Or should I perhaps be more ambitious and try to tame 2 and half (Koine and Attic and German) at the same time? 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6408 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 2 of 8 30 April 2013 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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Do both!
Imo, the real problem of many people trying to learn a few languages at a time is that they want to learn "one more language" or two, but don't love anything as much as their first foreign language. You on the other hand really seem to have a pretty strong interest in both of your new langs. The fact that you only need reading knowledge makes it easier. As for boredom, your options are either not to look things up (there's a joke that to read Biblical Greek you only need to know the word for "and" :)), or using a popup dictionary for more efficient looking up. Or a combination of both - look up less and use popup dictionaries when you do. I think you might need to take a break from Greek for now, and it certainly seems like a good moment to do a German 6WC. Just try to make a specific decision for when you're coming back to it. For example, you could do the next 6WC in Greek (it doesn't have to be a completely new language!). When you have such a high level of motivation (as you do for German), you need to feed it. I've had this, exactly with German. I was 11-12 and I didn't realize I could just use a self-study book. I had no opportunity to take classes and when I finally got it, just 1-2 years later, my motivation wasn't the same anymore. It still isn't the same. BTW nowadays my rule is to start learning a language when I can't live without it. Edited by Serpent on 30 April 2013 at 2:03pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4700 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 3 of 8 30 April 2013 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | ||
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What resources have you been using to learn Greek? That might help to know those.
There are a lot of free resources on line, at least for epic and Attic Greek. Then, of course, there's the relative expensive JACT course, which gets great reviews. I'm in my third 'round' of Greek. It's only been six months, but I went as far as I could with the first two courses. This round, the book I'm using takes a more traditional approach: it asks you to memorize "absolutely" the vocabulary and grammar of each lesson before moving on. It's slower going, but it means that I'm reading more and more on my own. If you haven't seen this website, it also has some great tips on how to approach Greek: POGM. He advocates a multi- year approach, taking many passes through the material. @Serpent - I love my kindle dictionaries for Spanish and French, but I can't imagine them working for Greek. The verb forms are just too complicated. Maybe they exist, but I haven't read about any. Edited by kanewai on 01 May 2013 at 2:27am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4055 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 4 of 8 30 April 2013 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | ||
What...the hell? Just flicked through the site, full of crap. I understand the usage of hyperbole, yet I don't find it helpful. At least it mentions sites like textkit however, which is certainly is a treasure trove for the self learner. Honestly learning Greek is not that hard, even if you learn it on your own (which many people do). Go through the grammar, reader, tackle an adapted reader + bilingual text and then handle a composition textbook. Obviously, this is really condensed advice but since there are no specific questions here on ancient Greek... Incidentally JACT is excellent and you don't need the more expensive updated version, the older version is just as good just much more fiddly to use, but you can save expenses there. Most (non Koine) textbooks are great (yes, even the public domain ones. Especially them) just avoid Groton's "Alpha to Omega". 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4700 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 5 of 8 30 April 2013 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | ||
seen state that Greek isn't hard. I'm not sure what part of the website was 'crap' to you. It's definitely written in a cavalier style, but what I got out of it was: 1. A good breakdown on the different styles of Greek course books 2. A good breakdown on how long it takes, and a recommended approach: First pass: Learn by doing ( a couple weeks) (reminds me of Assimil's passive wave) Second pass: Suck it up and memorize the basic forms (a few months) Third pass: Start really learning Greek. (many months) JACT, Athenaze, or TextKit Fourth pass: "Fly little birdie, fly?" Move on to Loeb Classical Library texts. Seems like a solid approach to me. I agree that JACT isn't as expensive as it seems at first. The three books (Independent Study Guide, Grammar and Exercises, and Text and Vocabulary) are $100.50 on Amazon, and the recordings an additional $32.50. That's about the same as two Assimil courses, or half Pimsleur. It's a lot, but I think they provide a lot too. That's why I was curious what darklight has done already. If he's done all this, and is still burned out, I'd agree that it's time for a break. If not, I'd say to hang in there a bit more! (edit: not to hijack the thread too much, but I'm still looking forward to your review of Assimil Le Grec ancien! I couldn't finish it, though I gave it a good shot). Edited by kanewai on 30 April 2013 at 10:27pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Lykeio Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4055 days ago 120 posts - 357 votes | Message 6 of 8 30 April 2013 at 10:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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It was crap because of the cavalier attitude basically, I found it off putting and I
worry others might be discouraged by it. Greek isn't half as hard as sites like that make it sound, it can take time, sure, but its not impossibly difficult and I think this aura is what worries many. Guess I worded that wrong. Generally the biggest problem with Greek is that people expect it too fast. Unless you're in a dedicated academic environment its not going to happen. Yes I'm curious as to what he has done too. Sometimes a break really is the best thing.Other times you need to persevere. Assimil: Ha thanks, its getting there. Thing is I need to go through it another time quickly just to tighten up some points for the review. I've showed the preliminary review to my girlfriend (who works with Latin) who basically made be heavily take out all the points on register and idiom. The biggest problem I have is how to anchor the review. :S I really do love JACT. Personally I'm a sucker for the more grammar intensive method, but JACT is an exception. Loads of reading, a halfway decent vocab list (with even some good to usage!) and enough exercises on composition to make it absolutely solid. It really is an impressive series. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Darklight1216 Diglot Senior Member United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4911 days ago 411 posts - 639 votes Speaks: English*, French Studies: German | Message 7 of 8 30 April 2013 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | ||
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Right now I'm working my way through TY Ancient Greek, Ty New Testament Greek: A complete
course, and Mango languages ancient and koine lessons. I also own John Dobson's Testament Greek which I initially loved and then it soared over my head. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kanewai Triglot Senior Member United States justpaste.it/kanewai Joined 4700 days ago 1386 posts - 3054 votes Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese Studies: Italian, Spanish | Message 8 of 8 01 May 2013 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | ||
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I like TY books, but I generally stall out somewhere between the seventh and twelfth
lessons (for Greek I made it to Chapter 11). It's too hard to constantly learn advanced grammar points when you haven't fully assimilated the basic ones. A challenge I find is that there is no early 'resting point' with Greek, or with other exotic languages. With Romance languages I can take time off, and just watch videos or read easy books for awhile, and come back to active studying when I'm motivated again. But perhaps you could try something similar - just work with an easier Greek book for awhile, to keep the language from completely stagnating. I'm coming at Greek from the epic side, so I don't have exact recommendations. But, I'm wondering if it might be easier to just focus on Koine (or Attic) rather than doing both at once. and I'm envious that you have access to the Mango recordings! My library doesn't carry them. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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