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A note on Swedish-Finnish bilingualism | ||
 Language Learning Forum : Skandinavisk & Nordisk |  | |
| cordelia0507 Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 5619 days ago 1473 posts - 2176 votes  Speaks: Swedish* Studies: German, Russian | Message 1 of 19 26 May 2013 at 10:16pm | IP Logged |
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This is just a bit of random information, because I had many brushes with the Finnish language recently. It might interest someone (or not):
Well, I just love it when things are dual-signed in Swedish and Finnish. It's so cosy somehow and makes me feel really sympathetic towards Finland.. When I've visited Finland I've always been quite touched by the effort they go to, to make sure that everything is available in Swedish. I think the percentage of native Swedish speakers is around 10 percent or so. Foods and transportation is always dual signed -- at least in my experience. You can get by just fine on Swedish alone in Helsinki. Nobody's ever been rude to me for speaking Swedish, even in cases where the person is not good at Swedish. They can always understand simple questions anyway, and I would not impose myself on someone who clearly doesn't like to speak Swedish. In Stockholm, many shops have signs to say that someone in the staff speaks Finnish. Once you get near the Finland ferries there plenty of dual language signs. There are some Finnish speaking schools, nursing homes etc in Sweden, and in some parts of the country it is possible to deal with the authorities in Finnish. (Too bad the languages are so different that this is necessary! With the other Nordic languages there is no need... ) The absolutely most committed group, when it comes to respecting people's preference of Finnish vs Swedish must be the Laestadian Christians. I tagged along with a friend to a few services not long ago, and everything was interpreted in real time, to Finnish. My friend said it was pretty much standard and they had done it for her entire life, as some of the elderly members did not speak good Swedish. All the material in the church was bilingual etc even though the church was in Sweden. Apparently this is the norm across the Laestadian movement. It all goes back to their founder who was Swedish, but bilingual and got fed up with how, back then, Swedish was forced on people in his parishes in Northern Sweden- preventing them to appreciate the gospel in their own language (Finnish and/or Sami). He brought about a revival and you have to wonder how much the simple matter of actually understanding the sermon helped. Well in general, I just think the whole language situation in Finland is really impressive with everyone taking a positive view the bilingual situation. Compare with the situation across the Baltic sea! Or Belgium.... A friend of mine is married to a Finnish diplomat (quite the political fox!) But he is a passionate believer in bilingualism in Finland and is fluent in Swedish despite not having Swedish speaking parents. For good measure, as an adult, he studies Russian too although just like me, not progressing very fast. I was so impressed with his views on the whole question. Finland is definitely an example of how a country ought to deal with minority languages. Edited by cordelia0507 on 26 May 2013 at 10:20pm 9 persons have voted this message useful | |
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4643 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 2 of 19 27 May 2013 at 1:07am | IP Logged |
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In my experience, the presence of Swedish (even in signs) is almost non-existent in
Eastern Finland (Lappeenranta, Imatra, Kouvola, etc.). I also remember reading a long time ago an article where a monolingual Swedish-speaking Finn was not able to get certain paperwork done in Swedish, even though it's their right to request such a service. I'm not a Finn, but at least in my experience, not everyone is so positive towards Swedish and there is a lot of tension within certain circles of society regarding the status it has in the country. The opposition towards the traditionally obligatory Swedish language instruction in schools is one sample of that. There's an ongoing effort to make it non-compulsory (http://ruotsivapaaehtoiseksi.fi/). BUT!! as you said, compared to other countries, the situation is much more harmonious and stable. And there is also a LOT of people who support Swedish language and culture here. Please don't think that the nature of this message is inflammatory or that I want to make Finns look bad. I just felt like sharing my view (and yes, I live in Finland). Edited by caam_imt on 27 May 2013 at 1:09am 5 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6937 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 3 of 19 27 May 2013 at 4:57am | IP Logged |
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I can only agree with caam_imt based on my travels through Finland. When I visited the southwest a few years ago, I stayed over at a Fennoswede's home who was fluent in Finnish, and he told me a similar story as that monoglot Fennoswede when it came to getting government services in Swedish. Although he knew Finnish, and he admitted to me that he could have sped up the process by just getting his stuff done in Finnish, he figured that if someone's supposed to provide equally good service in both languages, then why not do it in Swedish, his mother tongue.
In the far north too, Swedish signs are pretty much non-existent (but it's not too hard to find someone who can get by with elementary Swedish (all of that pakkoruotsi), but you will see signs in Northern Saami. When I was visiting Inari, I recall seeing a school's name being in Inari Saami and Skolt Saami in addition to Finnish and Northern Saami, and with the community being as small but close as it is, it's not too hard to find someone who's fluent in a Saamic language if you ask. In general, the Finns whom I met are indifferent or at least lukewarm about Swedish. No one was though so nasty as to let slip a virulently anti-Swedish attitude. However when I visited Kuopio and Lappeenranta, the people whom I stayed with felt that it would be easier to persuade kids at the local schools to take a few years of Russian classes instead of the Swedish ones given the amount of Russian tourists visiting or Russians buying property in Finland (especially true in the southeast) and the dearth of Fennoswedes in the area. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| sans-serif Tetraglot Senior Member Finland Joined 4340 days ago 298 posts - 470 votes Speaks: Finnish*, English, German, Swedish Studies: Danish | Message 4 of 19 27 May 2013 at 12:30pm | IP Logged |
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I'll just quickly comment on some of the particulars:
About 5% of the population of Finland report Swedish as their first language. Although Swedish is a compulsory subject in school, relatively few reach a good level in the language. I would guesstimate (just my impression) that there are perhaps a further 5% who could be considered fluent. Many more have varying degrees of (mostly) passive skills, of course. My impression, too, is that the silent majority is fairly indifferent about Swedish. Many are opposed to obligatory Swedish in schools out of principle or due to utilitarian considerations, however, so I can't help but feel that Swedish as a de facto official language is on its way out, although its status is protected by the constitution and will take a long time to change. It's also worth noting that Swedish, in many ways, is more than a simple minority language for us. For a long time, it was the sole official language of administration and as many as 25% of the population used to be Swedish-speaking. Even so, now that Finnish has become the dominant language in all walks of life and Swedish is no longer spoken as widely, it's no wonder that many young people don't see the point in learning it or feel particularly attached to it. Consequently, I'm skeptical of the political sustainability of a similar scheme under normal circumstances. Personally, I'm a big fan of Swedish of course. :-) Edited by sans-serif on 27 May 2013 at 12:36pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4643 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 5 of 19 27 May 2013 at 1:47pm | IP Logged |
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I totally agree. I'm also a Swedish language fan, and some of the Finns I know look very
puzzled when I tell them I'm studying Swedish for fun :). 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6378 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 6 of 19 27 May 2013 at 4:41pm | IP Logged |
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Yeah seconding all the replies you got :)
I want to move to Finland, but as I don't want to be an interpreter of Russian, my plan is to increase my value as a potential employee by learning Swedish to a better level than most Finns :P 4 persons have voted this message useful | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4790 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 7 of 19 27 May 2013 at 10:03pm | IP Logged |
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That sounds ambitious and awesome, Serpent!
Thanks for more info on the situation. I have recently got a booklet (in English) informing about Finnoswedish literature (with new books from 2010). And I really liked the presentation of the literature and it's target public. The presenters are well aware how small their market is (if I remember correctly: around 300000 finnoswedes + second market in Sweden) and their attitude could be an awesome example for other smaller literatures including the Czech one (even though the Czech literature is aimed at 10 millions). The basic presented though was that by the small size, they are freed from the need to fit into a tradition or a current. And as well from the need to be different from it. That sounds like an amazing approach. And the books and authors presented sounded really good. I hope the Finnoswedish minority and culture will survive. It is no wonder Swedish in schools and society is under pressure from Russian and probably English as well. After all, most people are strictly utilitarians when it comes to foreign languages. I really need to learn Swedish and I hope to start approximately one month from now.:-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6378 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 8 of 19 27 May 2013 at 10:44pm | IP Logged |
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Good luck with it! Will you be using Assimil? *wink wink cough cough cough* I'd love to use it too...
btw I don't think Swedish is under pressure from English. English is a given and I think it's normally started earlier than Swedish (correct me if I'm wrong!). People mostly want a more "useful" second foreign language after English, such as Russian or just Spanish/German/French (it will have to be your 3rd foreign language if you want to learn one of them!). 1 person has voted this message useful |
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