Confessions of a procrastinator (Advice Center) Language Learning Forum

Confessions of a procrastinator
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Jeffers
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United Kingdom
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Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German

Message 9 of 20

22 August 2013 at 9:41pm | IP Logged

Stelle wrote:

Cavesa wrote:

1.Get reading. Not children books, unless you enjoy them. BDs are an awesome beginning.

This is very true. If you don't like children's books in your own language, then you probably won't love them in your
target language. BUT I think that a lot of adults don't realize how many good children's books there are out there!

For BDs, I grew up on Asterix!

I think these are good suggestions, but I'm less sure about BDs. I thought BDs in French would be great, but so far I have found them too colloquial. Could you guys make some suggestions of some BDs which are more accessible? (Other than Asterix and Tinin... I've definitely got them in my reading queue.)
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Stelle
Bilingual Triglot
Senior Member
Canada
tobefluent.com
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Speaks: French*, English*, Spanish
Studies: Tagalog

Message 10 of 20

23 August 2013 at 12:04pm | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

I think these are good suggestions, but I'm less sure about BDs. I thought BDs in French would be great, but so far I
have found them too colloquial. Could you guys make some suggestions of some BDs which are more accessible?
(Other than Asterix and Tinin... I've definitely got them in my reading queue.)

Asterix is definitely for a high French level. Boule & Bill is easier - about a kid and his dog. I think the originals were
written in the 50s, but there are also some that were written this year.

Do you have your heart set on something that was originally written in French? Because the translated Calvin and
Hobbes comics were VERY popular with my French Immersion students.
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Cavesa
Triglot
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Czech Republic
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Message 11 of 20

23 August 2013 at 3:12pm | IP Logged

Persepolis is awesome and well accessible. And I loved Le Prince de la nuit and Le Troisieme Testament. Those I read when I was beginning.

I think Calvin and Hobbes are great in most languages. I guess the translators are doing their best because it would be a shame to destroy something that fun.

It depends as well at what all do you consider to be children's books. I already feel those for kids above 12 or so to not be children's books per se but rather something in between.
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PeterMollenburg
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AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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Speaks: English*
Studies: French^B1

Message 12 of 20

23 August 2013 at 11:53pm | IP Logged

iguanamon wrote:

Welcome to the forum, PeterMollenburg! I think where you may be getting derailed is
by focusing on courses and not on actually using the language. Try to get involved with French while you
are doing your course(s). If you like music- there's Lyrics Training.
Listening- Le journal en français facile.
Children's books for reading. GLOSS for more intensive audio and reading study. In short, engage the
language on many fronts, not just courses. A course should be one out of many tools you use to engage
the language and engage the language you must or you'll just be really good at studying.

Regardless, good luck!

Have bookmarked your suggestions, thanks again :)
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montmorency
Diglot
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Message 13 of 20

23 August 2013 at 11:58pm | IP Logged

I also would be a bit wary of children's books, just because the language is supposed
to be simpler. I wouldn't rule them out of course, and I've read Harry Potter, and even
Enid Blyton (as an adult), and got something out of them.

The thing is to get something that keeps you turning the pages because it's
interesting, can't-put-down-able.

One thing I really enjoy now is to listen to TL audiobooks, and read the TL book or e-
book at the same time. This doesn't necessarily mean doing the "proper" L-R technique
as described extensively elsewhere on the site (although that might also be worth
looking into). I just find it the most pleasurable way of getting through a TL book.

Once you get to the point where you know how to write down almost every word that you
hear, then you probably don't actually need the written book any more: i.e. you will
get just about as much out of the audiobook as out of the combination. But I still like
to use the combination, when it's convenient, even if I don't strictly need the written
word in front of me.

I also think you are wise to concentrate on one language for a bit. You will get a
boost once you see the progress you are making, and the level you can achieve.
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PeterMollenburg
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Message 14 of 20

24 August 2013 at 12:06am | IP Logged

Bao wrote:

GLOSS

As for racking up more time, it may help to use all the 'empty minutes' in a day, commercial breaks, waiting
for the coffee machine etc.
I usually have flash cards, an mp3 player, a target language book or my smart phone to use those moments.

But, make sure to also have some free time every day.

Good suggestions again. Cheers :) I have been using flashcards deluxe and have entered almost 5000
words so far utilising its SRS system although I tend to go for a website in French as opposed to the FC's as I
prefer words in context as opposed to isolation, and sth that holds my attention more effectively.
Nevertheless I do utilise the FC's as part of my studies (I have a few decks one FR-EN another with the same
words from EN to FR. I have a grammar deck and then an 'audio' deck which is basically a 'multi-deck' that
plays on auto via bluetooth through the stereo while i drive. My audio deck is set to random in terms of which
side it will play first, ie one card will be the EN then FR, then next FR EN etc. Having said that I've recently
bought a lot of audio programs- pimsleur, MT, Rocket French (yet to use that one), and of course have all my
other text book & video based programs which i can utilise (their audio components) while commuting or on
longer drives... Thus I have plenty of material to fill in the 'gaps' in the day and am actually utilising that quite
well now). And if i get over thinking about the language/remembering/constructing phrases I turn to French
music to switch off a little. So in terms of 'filler's I think I'm doing pretty well :) I'm actually pretty good lately at
wanting to utilise those moments... It's at home where I distract myself all too often- I think I have a tendency
to rebel against myself. If I know I have to do something I often somehow internally go against my own plans-
perhaps it's due to my always questioning the norm and having an innate distrust of repetition in our everyday
lives coupled with my real issue- self discipline
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PeterMollenburg
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Message 15 of 20

24 August 2013 at 12:39am | IP Logged

Jeffers wrote:

Steve, I know the feeling of being stuck in the beginning of a lot of
courses: I like the
beginning, it feels full of potential, but once you get underway that feeling fades
more and more and it just
becomes work.

For me, the solution was to make language learning fun. Watch movies, listen to music
you like, read books
and comics. If I could make one specific suggestion which has really made a big
difference for my progress,
it would be listening to and reading Le Petit Nicolas. I've listened to the audio book
about 10 times, and I'm
on my third reading of the book, and it still makes me laugh!

I imagine you enjoyed French at least in part because of the fun involved in the FIA
videos. Find that fun
again.

EDIT: by the way, what French music have you found? I listen to a lot, and my kids
compain that I never
listen to music in English anymore!

You're definitely right. I do like the beginning. And as I'm a perfectionist I love
making sure I know EVERY
SINGLE WORD. I've ready a few articles that basically state when we even utilise
language programs that
we really DON'T learn every word (unless we keep going over and over them). There's a
lot to be said about
the effectiveness of slowly but THOROUGHLY does it. Of course there's also a LOT of use
in reading texts
that contain words we don't know (surrounded by those we do) via reading to learn
through context. These
are of course nothing new to us language learners and I am repeating the obvious here.
I guess what I'm
getting at is that when I do a course I will ensure I know every word, thus if i have a
prolonged break when i
return to a course I will begin again if more than a few months have passed. Having
said that tho, this year I
have found a solution. I enter ALL new words into my flashcard deck feeling rest-
assured that I never have to
go back through these books again for the purpose of revising words I may forget (I
used to write new words
at the top of a page in my course book, with defintion, phonetic transcription and the
number beside it
corresponding to the number below on the page somewhere where the word would appear in
the
text/lesson). So now i'm 'free' I shouldn't have to go back to earlier lessons even if
it's been years... with one
exception: FIA is such a BIG course I've decided NOT to enter new words (that's what I
do with my other
courses such as Assimil, which i'm just using for the 1st time actually and am
impressed with... anyway with
FIA I'm using how one is supposed to- learning through context. I will prob come back
to this course in future
to study the video's and cultural documents alone again in future and then enter
'new/non entered words' as it
would be tooooooo slow to do this first time round and I need to really just get
through it. One thing I am bad
with is learning from context- being a perfectionist i don't trust myself and must look
up EVERY word. I will
even get stuck on a word in a conversation (in real life) and lose comprehension of the
rest of the sentence
because of my fixation on a previously unknown word. This has worked wonders for my
pronunciation, but
been a major hurdle for progress. So now i've begun to let go of this and one thing
that helped with that was
being in the Netherlands for a while- i had to let go of that or my communication would
always be impeded.
So know FIA is that for me, while other courses I am more pedantic with.

In terms of books I have now around 150 books. I set up an apple id with a French
address and have bought
French itunes cards and bought loads of ebooks (with a preference for audio ebooks). I
have many Petit
Nicholas, the Harry Potter series in paper and ebook format and bought the audio cds
for them. I have over
140 books on my phone in order of easy to hard (2 yr old level right up to adults) I
have classics, i have
bilingual audio books, bilingual ebooks text only, some books in French then another
copy in English, I have
some that are written in French and if you click on the words the translation appears-
not sure what they are
called, and I have prescribed to Bien-dire French learning magazine.

In terms of music... I'm a hip-hop fan and was majorly into rap music in the 90s and
still like to listen to the
'old'school' rap from time to time but also don't like a lot of the the newer (in my
opinion much more
commercialised, lacking in talent) rap. Besides I have so much music I barely need any
new stuff. Anyway in
terms of French music I bought a handful of French rap artists music example: IAM, Oxmo
Puccino, Supreme
NTM, DJ Cut Killer, which for the most part I cannot follow and thus struggle to 'get
into'. I have been a fan of
Camille for a long time and her music is great. It's easier to follow and enjoyable. I
have bought other artists
like Mademoiselle K (not bad), Mano Solo (culturally rich I'm told, but musically
lacking in quality as it's 90's
and the sound production is not so great), but the one I have really really taken to is
Féfé, an old-school
French rapper with African roots who now being a little more mature his music crosses
over into reggae, pop
and easy listening, with of course some more up tempo catchy rap songs that are
suprisingly clear. Great
artist, worth a look in my opinion....

edit: musixmatch is a promising app btw. If you play music via iphone (not sure if on
android) it displays lyrics on screen as the music plays.

Fefe's 2nd album 'le charme des premiers jours' comes with a digital booklet of lyrics
when I bought a digital copy

Edited by PeterMollenburg on 26 August 2013 at 5:11am
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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
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Speaks: English*
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Message 16 of 20

24 August 2013 at 1:08am | IP Logged

Stelle wrote:

If it's not fun...then I won't do it.

Do you enjoy working your way through those programs? Or are you doing it because you feel like you
should?

My favourite language-learning activities are:

- reading children's novels
- doing language exchanges on Skype
- listening to music (and singing along!)
- listening to podcasts

So that's what I mostly do! Sure, I also study grammar explicitly, and I did drag myself through the first 16
lessons of Pimsleur, but the cornerstone of my language learning is thinking about things that I love to do in
English or French, and then doing them in Spanish.

For French, depending on your level, there are lots of children's novels available - both written in French and
translated from the English. I really liked La quete de Despereaux (translated from the English novel by Kate
DiCamillo - I've read it in English, Spanish and French and loved it every single time!).

edited to add: Le petit Nicolas really is a great book!

I listed some French Canadian children's novels in another post, that I'm copying and pasting here:

Stelle wrote:

Le petit Nicolas and Le petit prince are both classics. Can't go wrong with either one
of those.

If you're interested in branching out and reading some entertaining present-day French-
Canadian authors, I can recommend:

Mélanie Watt for picture books
She's a writer/illustrator and her books are absolutely hilarious. I especially love
the Frisson l'écureuil series (translated by Mélanie to English as well, under the name
Scaredy Squirrel). Kids love them - but there's a lot there for adults too. I actually
use them in my adult French courses.

Danielle Simard for easy illustrated chapter books
My fourth- and fifth-graders (immersion students, so reading at a slightly lower level
than they would be in English) really loved her series that follows the days of the
week, about a little boy named Julien. The first one is called Le champion du lundi.
All of her books are very readable, though.

Alain Bergeron, also for easy illustrated chapter books
One of his books - Zzzut! - is about a little boy who can't do an oral presentation in
class because his zipper gets stuck in the bathroom. Ridiculous, right? Well, this book
made the rounds of my all-male adult French class. Everyone wanted to read it - and
everyone loved it, even the self-professed non-reader who hadn't read a book in any
language since high school 25 years earlier.

Dominique Demers
She writes all levels of children's books. I especially love her series that begins
with La nouvelle maîtresse - about a very unorthodox substitute teacher who takes over
a class. It's aimed at a slightly higher age group than the books I mentioned by
Bergeron and Simard. This series was very popular with the 'tween crowd in French
Canada. They made a movie out of the first book a few years ago.

I actually really do enjoy courses. I love the sense of accomplishment in getting through them (when I do).
Self discipline is really my number 1 problem and that's simply a character flaw that can be fixed. It's always
been a problem with me with everything I've done. I get bored after a bit. Now I do have so many courses that
i'm using together that it's hard for me to get bored. On a side note for anyone reading this I must say I've
never been a fan of computer based language learning software. I think Rosetta Stone is rubbish, and so far I
have very mixed feelings in regards to Tell Me More, but.... I've actually been motivated quite a lot with the
Fluenz French program. There is a teacher who talks at the beginning and end of each lesson (who French
accent is certainly not perfect which is my only problem with the program... her nasal vowels can be really off
at times). Anyway thankfully she's not the main learning source, she only guides the learner along. The main
content is based on native speakers... Anyway in short it's a really great program and is holding my interest
quite well....

I have intentions to come back to this thread soon as I'm soon to buy some more itunes cards and hopefully I
can find some of the books you've mentioned on itunes. So thanks heaps for recommending them. There will
come a day when I can fit it in among my courses/FC's/work/exercises/family/social (we've got to be pretty
fortunate if time is not an issue for us language learners) anyway my point is there will come a day when I'll
start madly reading, so thanks again!

Oh and about the language exchanges on skype... that is one thing I MUST do! I've never done it and have
always held off on real speaking hoping to get through my courses so i could put what i learn into practice
and not make mistakes. I've always thought learning accent or grammar (throwing yourself in the deep end
without much formal learning) is bad for reinforcing errors. Mind you I now feel i know enough to get past that
problem. I know the other school of thought is just immerse yourself. I think a combination of the 2 is best-
learn the phonetics properly, learn the fundamental rules, build vocab and then immerse yourself in order to
reinforce what has been learned, and develop skill in assimilating new constructions and understanding new
words through context. So skype exchanges i must do. I've also just signed up to a site/app called Meetup.
Basically you input your interests (in this case language/culture) and if local groups are found on the
website/or app and you can sign up. Eg in my case French language conversational groups. So I'm yet to go
to a meeting yet as i've only just signed up and i'm a shift worker so it's difficult to make it to one. I think skype
might be better as it's right in your own home and there's no time lost in city traffic- mind you i still have my
audio for driving that i could use, but anyway.....

Thanks again Stelle

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