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Most logical languages

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143 messages over 18 pages: << Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 15 ... 17 18 Next >>
Camundonguinho
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 Message 113 of 143
14 December 2011 at 5:50am | IP Logged 
ARBOR was feminine is Latin, so árvore (f) is in accordance with that.
The Spanish usage arbol (m.) is the exception.

http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/noun:arbor
Main Forms: Arbor, Arboris
Gender: Feminine
Declension: Third
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mashmusic11235
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 Message 114 of 143
14 December 2011 at 11:44pm | IP Logged 
Mikael84 wrote:
I don't understand those people who mention MSA/classical Arabic. It is certainly the least logical language I have studied. It seems everything is irregular, nouns, verbs, everything.

Just a few examples: plurals of nouns (although sometimes you can guess the plural it is better to learn them by heart), numbers (from 3 to 10 if the noun is masculine then the number is feminine and the noun is plural with indirect case, however after 10 it is singular with direct case, etc etc crazy stuff), feminine/masculine (if the subject is a plural of a thing then the verb is singular feminine.. why?!!, if the verb is placed before the subject and the subject is plural then the verb stays singular, etc etc), tons of irregular verbs outside of the 10 regular schemes (qala, da3aa, baqiya, etc).


As for the inanimate plural/feminine singular verb issue, I beleive it's just a coincidence. My thoughts are that proto-Arabic or proto-Semitic had a separate inanimate plural form, which eventually, through the process of simplification, ended up being exactly like the feminine singular.

To make an analogy to English, the 3rd person plural verb form (I go/he goes, I read/he reads) looks the same as the pluarl of nouns (book/books), but we know that this happened because of simplification of forms that used to exist separately in Old English.

These are just my thoughts, I'm by no means an expert on Semitic languages.

Edited by mashmusic11235 on 15 December 2011 at 2:11am

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hrhenry
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 Message 115 of 143
15 December 2011 at 12:21am | IP Logged 
Camundonguinho wrote:

The Spanish usage arbol (m.) is the exception.

Italian must also be an exception then. Albero is masculine.

EDIT: Actually, I just went back and looked in my Garzanti dictionary. Latin (arbore) was masculine. BUT... my Avaliardi Dizionario Etimologico lists it as feminine.

R.
==

Edited by hrhenry on 15 December 2011 at 12:35am

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MarcusOdim
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 Message 116 of 143
15 December 2011 at 1:51am | IP Logged 
What I meant is that it's become quite random in the Romance languages, it's ok that in Latin it was either F or M, but it doesn't explain WHY a tree is supposed to be either feminine or masculine, a logical language would be the one that has defines quite specifically: living female beings are feminine, non-living things are neuter and living masc....
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Serpent
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 Message 117 of 143
15 December 2011 at 2:23am | IP Logged 
imo, a logical LANGUAGE is where you can always tell the gender of a noun by its ending. what you describe is a "logical" linguistic view of the world that correlates with modern science.

compared to a stone, a tree is very much a living thing though so there's also a logic in considering it animate. this doesn't have much to do with whether a language can be considered logical.
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Volte
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 Message 118 of 143
15 December 2011 at 3:32am | IP Logged 
Serpent wrote:
imo, a logical LANGUAGE is where you can always tell the gender of a noun by its ending. what you describe is a "logical" linguistic view of the world that correlates with modern science.

compared to a stone, a tree is very much a living thing though so there's also a logic in considering it animate. this doesn't have much to do with whether a language can be considered logical.


Or better yet, a logical language is one which doesn't gender nouns.
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Serpent
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 Message 119 of 143
15 December 2011 at 3:50am | IP Logged 
sure. i meant that if there are no genders, then you also can tell the gender easily :-))) i just think that genders/classifiers per se don't make a language illogical.

and i suppose the gender doesn't necessarily have to be indicated by an ending... indo-european bias, lol.

Edited by Serpent on 15 December 2011 at 3:51am

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Monox D. I-Fly
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 Message 120 of 143
14 June 2015 at 6:47pm | IP Logged 
MarcusOdim wrote:
What I meant is that it's become quite random in the Romance languages, it's ok that in Latin it was either F or M, but it doesn't explain WHY a tree is supposed to be either feminine or masculine, a logical language would be the one that has defines quite specifically: living female beings are feminine, non-living things are neuter and living masc....


I remember when I learnt that in Arabic, the sun is female and the moon is male, contrary to the European languages. Glad I live in Indonesia, where nouns are never supposed to be masculine or feminime.

Edited by Monox D. I-Fly on 15 June 2015 at 1:37am



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