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Unrealistic expectations | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4431 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes  Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 1 of 11 08 September 2013 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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In my country, the UK, people do not enjoy a great reputation for speaking foreign languages. That said, many do try. Every town will offer evening classes in some shape or form and bookstores and libraries stock numerous textbooks, audio courses and dictionaries.
Yet most people who dip their toe in the water do not make any significant progress. Granted, some people spend their life flitting from one new-found hobby to the next but most people who undertake language studies will do so with the initial aim of wanting to learn the language. So why is the success rate so low? I believe a significant factor is that most people have no real grasp of how long it actually takes to reach even conversational level in a foreign language and how much work is required. We use phrases like "pick up" and "brush up" to describe language acquisition but they do not convey the toil. I think many assume that attending a dozen two-hour classroom sessions, or working their way through a CD course, will equip them to chat with locals while on holiday abroad. When they find out that this is far from the case, people begin to pin labels upon themselves that say they are "not good at languages" I have even heard of businesses sending executives to language schools for intensive courses, expecting that after 4-weeks the attendee with be able to do commercial deals in the chosen language. I don't detect any hostility in the UK towards language learning. Quite the opposite in fact. If I tell someone that I can speak German I usually receive a compliment. I have lost count of the number of times someone has said to me "I wish I had paid attention in school...." So we do have hopes and ambitions, but most opt out when they find out the scale of the task. Then again, I did exactly the same thing with the guitar. 12 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Jeffers Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4718 days ago 2151 posts - 3960 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German | Message 2 of 11 08 September 2013 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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I think what you wrote is quite correct: people generally think learning a language will be as easy as when they learned to ride a bike. A few afternoons of hard work and grazed knees followed by a lifetime of fun.
One way you can see the evidence for this situation is to look at the resources for sale at your average bookstore. 95% of what they sell in the language section are either beginner courses or standard resources like dictionaries or grammars. They have very few intermediate courses because very few people who start introductory language courses finish them. 7 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| caam_imt Triglot Senior Member Mexico Joined 4671 days ago 232 posts - 357 votes Speaks: Spanish*, EnglishC2, Finnish Studies: German, Swedish | Message 3 of 11 08 September 2013 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Based on my experience, in the two countries I know (Mexico and Finland), there is a
general ignorance about the intricacies of language learning. There are good language learners everywhere, no matter the country, but it's always a minority. What other countries have that the UK or USA don't have is the NEED to understand and speak English, as in today's societies it's almost or perhaps more valued than e.g. knowing how to use a computer. It's a basic need that you guys have under your belt. What you say about the UK also applies here in Finland (from my perspective). Even though this country has a good reputation when it comes to English, I have seen CEO's speak with a bad accent and some grammar mistakes, young people who don't care at all about languages and just go through the school system (learning Swedish and English compulsorily), people who think that you can learn a language only by moving to the country where it's spoken, etc. I don't see it much different compared the UK, as Finns who can speak other languages really well other than English are a minority. People are lazy and won't learn anything unless there is a good reason (need or passion). I see that in most countries, a need for some language is usually the reason that prevails. The world has to learn English, Belgium has native speakers of French and Dutch, Canada has a French speaking minority, Finland has a Swedish speaking minority, etc. I see it as the main reason as why language learning in the UK is not so popular or perhaps perceived as difficult, because in the grand scheme of things, you don't need any other language than English. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| g-bod Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 5791 days ago 1485 posts - 2002 votes Speaks: English*, Japanese Studies: French, German | Message 4 of 11 08 September 2013 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
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Sadly, the unrealistic expectations with respect to intensive courses in the UK is not limited to language courses alone. I know of people who were sent to study university modules by their employer where all the teaching was crammed into one week. Of course you can deliver all the information in that time, but for someone to actually learn, understand and develop their own informed ideas about a subject takes a lot longer than just one week, no matter how many teaching hours you cram in.
I agree that if you have never actually learned a foreign language properly there is a huge amount of mystery over what it takes to learn a foreign language and what it feels like to actually be able to use one. I cringe when I hear monolingual Brits planning an extended stay abroad saying (or being advised) that they will just "pick the language up" when they get there, as if it's some kind of virus. Of course they will come home disappointed. On the other hand, I think sometimes people are put off because they think the task is actually bigger than it really is. There is an assumption that you have to already reach an advanced level before you can start having fun. You will not impress anyone with an A2 level in a foreign language and it's not something you could use professionally. However, even A2 is good enough to make a holiday abroad a lot more interesting. To take the guitar analogy, it's the difference between strumming a few chords with friends around a campfire and performing the Concierto de Aranjuez to a paying audience. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| montmorency Diglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4637 days ago 2371 posts - 3676 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Danish, Welsh | Message 5 of 11 08 September 2013 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | ||||||||
The most laughable example of that is "management courses"! Of course, one can learn aspects of good management on a course, or from a book, but to really learn it (assuming one isn't a "born manager", and there are some), probably takes a working lifetime, and even then some never achieve it. :-(
And that's probably all that the majority of people ever need or want. A few will catch the bug and then spend far too much time in places like this one. :-)
:-) 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| shk00design Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 4253 days ago 747 posts - 1123 votes Speaks: Cantonese*, English, Mandarin Studies: French | Message 6 of 11 09 September 2013 at 1:59am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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The Chinese are not known for learning fluent languages unless they are planning to move to a country
or use it in the work place. 1 thing I find is that many people are taking language classes or with private tutors, but don't really see themselves being able to communicate in any meaning way outside the classroom environment or even get into discussions using the language they acquired. I know 2 people one who took Spanish and the other Japanese but neither have reached the conversational level. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||
| Lakeseayesno Tetraglot Senior Member Mexico thepolyglotist.com Joined 4143 days ago 280 posts - 488 votes Speaks: English, Spanish*, Japanese, Italian Studies: Esperanto, French | Message 7 of 11 09 September 2013 at 8:41am | IP Logged | ||||||||
Funny you should mention this. As of late I've been thinking that a huge reason why some people think they're not good at learning a language (or as they say here in Mexico, they think "their heads are made of Teflon") is because relatively false advertisement seems to be a HUGE part of the language teaching business. It's almost a stablished formula: 1. "Come to our school and learn Korean in four months!" 2. Prospective student gets all excited by thinking that by the end of four months Korean will have magically shimmied its way into his brain, goes to advertised school, pays for advertised course. 3. Prospective student realizes there's no such thing as magical language shimmying, and either finishes only the four months he paid for or drops out halfway, but anyway, he's already spent his money. On one hand the student is somewhat to blame for keeping unrealistic expectations like that. In the end, we're all responsible for what we do with our own wallets. However, on the other hand I feel very few schools make it a point to tell their students "if you want to really learn this, you're going to have to make an effort for at least (insert reasonable period of time here)". They know people like easy and fast, so they just tell them what they want to hear. It's no wonder that after repeating this cycle a few times, people start pinning the blame on themselves. I wish there was a better, more marketing-savvy way to tell these people: "yes, it requires a lot of effort and time, but the end results are completely worth it". 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||
| I'm With Stupid Senior Member Vietnam Joined 3982 days ago 165 posts - 349 votes Speaks: English* Studies: German, Vietnamese | Message 8 of 11 09 September 2013 at 9:13am | IP Logged | ||||||||
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How many people have got an old instrument they don't know how to play? Or loads of exercise equipment they bought when they were sure they were going to get fit? People tend to get enthusiastic about something right up until they've bought all of the stuff and then they decide it's too much work. It's the same with anything that involves a lot of work that you don't really need to do.
I teach for a living, and beginner courses have by far the highest drop-out rate, despite the perceived progress being the highest of any course. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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