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Silver Spoon / Neutrino stories?

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rapp
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5491 days ago

129 posts - 204 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Esperanto, Spanish

 
 Message 9 of 24
03 October 2013 at 12:30am | IP Logged 
Cavesa,

I'm doing the neutrino Spanish program, which just went live on September 1st. So I'm barely over a month into it. The neutrino website always shows you daily and all-time stats. Here are my all-time ones:
                                   
Level: 2=Double Helix | You're only 48,174 XP away from levelling up! | Hitcount: 912 | Kindacount: 41 | Skipcount: 15 | Phase: 3.1
[Rot: -77] XP: 70,576 / 1,900,000
【★3.7%        &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp;         &n bsp; 】

That is showing that I have levelled up one time (Level 1 = Quark). I've got about 48000 XP to go before I level up again (so about 25 days, given the 1900 XP per day goal). The hitcount stat is the number of atoms I have successfully completed. The kindacount is the number of atoms where I've indicated that I've half-way done the atom in some sense (For instance, you might get an atom that tells you to start playing a Spanish movie, and then later get one that says to start playing any Spanish audio. It is up to you whether to mark that second one as complete or as kinda done.) And you also have the option of completely skipping an atom if you want, although you get docked some XP if you do, so I haven't done that very often. I don't know what phase means. I've lost a total of 77 XP to the rot I mentioned before, and I've racked up just over 70000 XP so far.

So the site documents in some detail just how much of a beginner I am.


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emk
Diglot
Moderator
United States
Joined 5292 days ago

2615 posts - 8806 votes 
Speaks: English*, FrenchB2
Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 10 of 24
03 October 2013 at 12:37am | IP Logged 
rapp wrote:
Hmm, I had considered starting a neutrino log here, maybe I'll go do that.

I would love to read your Neutrino log! As far as I know, we've never had one before, and it would be a very cool addition to the forum. Khatzumoto is definitely experimenting with some very interesting teaching tools.

rapp wrote:
- Start a Spanish "let's play" video playing in youtube
- Open a website of Spanish phrases - find a few interesting ones - make SRS cards from them (that would be presented as multiple atoms)
- Do 5 minutes of SRS reps
- Go to your favorite online bookstore - search for Spanish comic books - find one that looks interesting - buy it (again, multiple atoms)
- Look up any word, known or unknown, in a Spanish dictionary

I'm sure I'm forgetting a whole bunch of other ones. But for all of these atoms, there will be appropriate links provided. So, for example, that atom that says to watch a let's play video will be accompanied by a link that takes you to youtube with the appropriate search already done, so that you just have to click on whichever video looks interesting to you in order to complete the atom.

That certainly sounds like a fun and convenient course format. I love the fact that there are lots of links provided. And given your description, I can easily believe that Neutrino works.

I'm still a little puzzled by the lack of Silver Spoon graduates. But I'm looking forward to following your progress if you choose to share it!
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rapp
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5491 days ago

129 posts - 204 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Esperanto, Spanish

 
 Message 11 of 24
03 October 2013 at 12:55am | IP Logged 
Cavesa (continued ;-)

The question about choosing personalized materials versus being spoonfed links is a good one. It turns out that there is no conflict between those two things because the links that neutrino provides are frequently to search results.

So, for example, if it asks you to watch a let's play video, it will provide a link that goes to youtube with the appropriate search terms already entered. So you just have to click on whichever one seems interesting to you. And similarly if it asks you to buy as Spanish comic book, it will provide a link to a page of "cómics y novelas gráficas" search results on amazon.

So it always provides links which enable you to complete the atom, but you can choose the particular book/video/whatever that interests you. And you are not required to use those links. If you want to use vimeo or barnes and noble or whatever, well the provided link will show you the correct search terms to use to get to the appropriate material.

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Snowflake
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5719 days ago

1032 posts - 1233 votes 
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 12 of 24
27 October 2013 at 1:27am | IP Logged 
I just discovered this thread...have been enrolled in Khatz's Mandarin program for over a year. I periodically refer to what Khatz has me doing in my forum log.

rapp wrote:
On the AJATT site he goes on at length about how he's broken everything down into "atoms" for you, but it really isn't clear what that means


Understanding the explanation would require first understanding Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) quite well, to the point of being able to deliberately and effectively use ABA techniques. That's not true for most people. I was on SinoSpoon day 31 or 32 when I realized Khatz was using ABA.

Edited by Snowflake on 27 October 2013 at 1:29am

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Snowflake
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5719 days ago

1032 posts - 1233 votes 
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 13 of 24
27 October 2013 at 1:41am | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:
Neutrino/Silverspoon seems to be for those who have enough money to buy everything Khatzumoto tells them to get and no time to search for it all themselves. That's the principle of the silver spoon.


I understand that the school Khatz attended here in the US has a very strong behavior program.

A while back I invested a lot of time and money to learn to use ABA techniques well (related to working with animals) over something like 8-10 years. There is absolutely no way I would be able mimic Khatz's program myself, without a TON more ABA training, especially to the nuanced degree reflected in his program.

Edited by Snowflake on 27 October 2013 at 8:07pm

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Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 4769 days ago

3277 posts - 6779 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 14 of 24
28 October 2013 at 7:16pm | IP Logged 
I am not saying you could just mimic the same thing. Just that people who just manage
to put in the time, who search until they find their way and who use a lot of native
sources do not need the silverspoon and will get the same results.

All I said in that quote is true. Either you have the time to find out what you need
and you are able to put the good advice from ajatt (which basically boils down to
putting in a lot of time, using mostly native sources, using things that you enjoy and
doing the less pleasant parts as efficiently as possible-anki,heisig,10000 sentences).
Or you don't have the time/will and in that case, neutrino/silverspoon is a ready
solution.

I said nothing about creating the same system for yourself. You don't need to study any
behavioral "science" in order to learn a language.
3 persons have voted this message useful



Snowflake
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5719 days ago

1032 posts - 1233 votes 
Studies: Mandarin

 
 Message 15 of 24
28 October 2013 at 11:21pm | IP Logged 
Cavesa wrote:
I said nothing about creating the same system for yourself. You don't need to study any behavioral "science" in order to learn a language.


If you really dislike snakes, how long would it take to train yourself to work with them? I had an adversion to Chinese characters so it was necessary to approach it that way.
1 person has voted this message useful



Serpent
Octoglot
Senior Member
Russian Federation
serpent-849.livejour
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9753 posts - 15779 votes 
4 sounds
Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese
Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish

 
 Message 16 of 24
29 October 2013 at 12:58am | IP Logged 
I sure hope she doesn't dislike me :D
And I also hope that most learners of Mandarin (or Japanese) here don't have an adversion to these characters. Wouldn't you need this stuff regardless of the method?

Edited by Serpent on 29 October 2013 at 12:58am



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