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Subordinate clause of "I thought" | ||
Tags: Syntax | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Specific Languages |  | |
| yong321 Groupie United States yong321.freeshe Joined 5323 days ago 80 posts - 104 votes  Studies: Spanish | Message 1 of 11 16 October 2013 at 4:50am | IP Logged | ||
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In English, the subordinate clause of the main clause "I thought" should use the past tense, e.g. "I thought it was Tuesday today", not "I thought it is Tuesday today". Lately I found this sentence in a German learning CD: "Und ich dachte es ist Dienstag." (literally: "And I thought it is Tuesday") That means in German, it's acceptable to use the simple present tense in the subordinate clause even if its main clause uses the past tense. But I'm sure using the past tense is fine too ("Ich dachte, es war Dienstag."). What about other languages?
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| Via Diva Diglot Senior Member Russian Federation last.fm/user/viadivaRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4015 days ago 1109 posts - 1427 votes Speaks: Russian*, English Studies: German, Italian, French, Swedish, Esperanto, Czech, Greek | Message 2 of 11 16 October 2013 at 9:54am | IP Logged | ||
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In Russian we actually can build a subordinate clause without verb at all: Я думал, что сегодня вторник. In case if you need to use the verb it's more likely to be past tense Я думал, что сегодня был вторник. Plus, I'm not sure if that's right, but one can use future tense as well Я думал, что сегодня будет вторник. One thing for sure - present tense (сегодня есть вторник) in this situation sounds awkward and it's better to get on without verb at all.
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| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4488 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 3 of 11 16 October 2013 at 11:18am | IP Logged | ||
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Yeah, but if you're using a verb that is not быть you have to use present tense
conjugation of whichever verb you are using. The fact that быть is not made explicit in the present tense because that's the usual way of doing it does not mean that the sentence is not in present tense - it is. You can use past tense btw in Russian - but that implies the action in the subclause has already happened (and would be translated with a past perfect). Hope this helps. In French you have to use a past tense usualy (unless it's a subjonctif or a conditionnel..). Which one... depends on the original sentence. Edited by tarvos on 16 October 2013 at 11:19am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Ari Heptaglot Senior Member Norway Joined 6363 days ago 2314 posts - 5695 votes Speaks: Swedish*, English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Mandarin, Cantonese Studies: Czech, Latin, German | Message 4 of 11 16 October 2013 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | ||
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Swedish, French and Spanish are like English, past tense. Mandarin and Cantonese don't have tense, so the question doesn't really apply.
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| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4625 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 5 of 11 16 October 2013 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | ||
Actually, in this kind of reported speech (or thought), the best solution would be using the subjunctive: "Ich dachte, es sei Dienstag" or, more commonly, "Ich dachte, es wäre Dienstag". Using the indicative in this construction is rather colloquial. Besides, the past and the present tense in the reported speech convey different nuances in meaning, depending on whether you are talking about the present or the past. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| yong321 Groupie United States yong321.freeshe Joined 5323 days ago 80 posts - 104 votes Studies: Spanish | Message 6 of 11 16 October 2013 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks to all!
Josquin, you're right. It's an informal chat between two people in the CD. Regarding German subjunctive, I read http://german.about.com/od/grammar/a/konjunktivII.htm "in English the subjunctive has practically died out. Only a few vestiges remain. ... But in German, despite some setbacks, the subjunctive is very much alive and well." So, unless there's a trend of less usage of German subjunctive in our lifetime, sticking to it is the right thing to do. Thanks. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4488 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 7 of 11 16 October 2013 at 9:21pm | IP Logged | ||
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In German speech I would basically never use a subjunctive unless I was in a very formal
setting. That never happens so I always go for an indicative in speech (also because I am too lazy to learn the subjunctive forms). However in writing I would go for a subjunctive always. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Josquin Heptaglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4625 days ago 2266 posts - 3992 votes Speaks: German*, English, French, Latin, Italian, Russian, Swedish Studies: Japanese, Irish, Portuguese, Persian | Message 8 of 11 16 October 2013 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | ||
This is true for the present subjunctive (Konjunktiv I), which is only used in formal or written language, but the past subjunctive (Konjunktiv II) is very common in colloquial language, especially "wäre". So if you can't produce it, you will at least need to be able to recognize it, which may be difficult because of the typical vowel gradation of strong verbs. 1 person has voted this message useful |
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