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What is bilingual to you? | ||
Tags: Multilingual | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| Lorren Senior Member United States brookelorren.com/blo Joined 4036 days ago 286 posts - 324 votes  Speaks: English* Studies: German, Spanish, Danish, Irish Studies: Russian | Message 17 of 63 04 November 2013 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would go with the "speaking two languages" definition... in the US, there are plenty of people who speak English quite well, but aren't native speakers of the language, because they came over to the US in their teens, twenties, thirties, or whatever. You can have conversations with them and they don't have to ask you what words mean (unless you use something uncommon, but sometimes native speakers might also have that trouble). They can do their jobs in English without help translating. I would consider them to be bilingual, even if they speak Spanish better than English.
I ran into the same thing when I lived and worked in Italy. I spoke English with the Italians all day long, unless I was actually trying to practice my Italian language skills on them. On occasion, they might have to think about how to say a word in English, but they could work with English speakers without a problem. I would consider them to be bilingual, even if they learned English at a later age, watched TV at home in Italian, read Italian books, etc. People not as into languages as we are might not be as picky though... 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4407 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 18 of 63 04 November 2013 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | ||
I would say people who grow up as native Welsh or Gaelic speakers in the UK (and use it as their first language among family and the local community) will effectively end up completely fluent in 2 languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5215 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 19 of 63 04 November 2013 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | ||
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In a neighbouring thread, we got into a raucous debate over what is a polyglot. I'll spare all the gory details,
but at the end what seemed to be the majority opinion was four languages at a minimum B1 level. My suggestion for bilingual then would be simply two languages starting at B1. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5119 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 20 of 63 04 November 2013 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | ||
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I found this definition when I looked it up:
bi·lin·gual (b-lnggwl) adj. 1. a. Using or able to use two languages, especially with equal or nearly equal fluency. b. Using two languages in some proportion in order to facilitate learning by students who have a native proficiency in one language and are acquiring proficiency in the other: bilingual training; bilingual education. 2. Of, relating to, or expressed in two languages: a bilingual dictionary. n. A person who uses or is able to use two languages, especially with equal fluency. And since in French and Spanish it looks like it is commonly used in a loser way, I looked up the French definition: Le bilinguisme peut se rapporter à des phénomènes concernant : - un individu qui connaît deux langues ; - une communauté où deux langues sont employées. Il consiste théoriquement dans le fait de pouvoir s'exprimer et penser sans difficulté dans deux langues à un degré de précision identique dans chacune d'elles. Les individus authentiquement bilingues sont également imprégnés des deux cultures indifféremment et dans tous les domaines. Edited by Solfrid Cristin on 04 November 2013 at 8:24pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4463 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 21 of 63 05 November 2013 at 7:25am | IP Logged | ||
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You looked up "bilinguisme" while the topic was "bilingue". Anybody using bilinguisme would indeed refer to a narrower concept closer to what people on HTLAL think of when they say bilingual. But in French, looking up "bilingue" (not bilinguisme... hopefully you wouldn't research what "social" means looking up "socialism" :D) in a dictionary would give you something as loose as:
-qui sait deux langues. Looking "bilingual" in English (in a dictionary, not in an Encyclopedia) seems to return as the first definition "Having the ability to speak two languages" with no more precision. I'm of course not arguing with what people here mean by "bilingual". It is good that people of a community agree to use a word in a certain way, but as in about any domain, the layman may have a very different usage of the word. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5215 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 22 of 63 05 November 2013 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | ||
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I wonder if this debate isn't fundamentally the same as that of speaking multiple languages, something we all know
about here. One could think, rather naively, that to speak various languages means to speak them equally well. We all know that this is not the case. Similarly, being biiingual does not really imply equal proficiency in two languages. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5119 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 23 of 63 05 November 2013 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | ||
There seems to be different views on that, which often would coincide with the meaning in different languages. That is why I asked how the term was interpreted in the different languages. In my language, I have never heard it used by experts or laymen as anything but knowing two languages equally well. If I say I am "tospråklig" in Norwegian, my English doesn't cut it, regardless of how well Norwegians in general speak English or other languages. In Spanish it is mostly interpreted differently. I am not so sure we can find a rule that is correct for everyone on this one. We may have to note that the usage is different in different languages, or that it differs between laymen and experts in some languages. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4463 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 24 of 63 05 November 2013 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | ||
Are you implying that the meaning of the word in different languages could correlate with how common it is in that country to have native bilinguals? I would imagine that in multilingual countries, nobody would call himself "bilingual" if he knew only his second language to a B1 level. On the other hand, in France (and from CVs I've seen, Spanish people in London) people don't hesitate to brand themselves as fluent (and/or bilingual) when their English is still clearly poor: they're usually the person that speaks the best English in their family, and in the eyes of their entirely monoglot parents, they're bilingual. Would that make sense? 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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