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TAC ’14: Sokoły / Соколи (Pol./Ukr. Team) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6950 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes  20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 9 of 151 11 December 2013 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | |||||
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It's interesting to me that there's a bias toward Ukrainian although that might be explained by the novelty of it. On the other hand it would be tough to get a hold of a guardian angel. Anyone who's stuck on some aspect of the language may need to post on Unilang's Ukrainian forum if he/she can't get help from someone here or his/her own reference material.
Fuenf_Katzen, I warn you to be on your toes as you rotate your studies between Polish and Ukrainian. You may find the Ukrainian characteristics unintuitive because of your base in Polish - particuarly noticeable would be your pronunciation (Ukrainian stress is not fixed and has some vowel reduction whereas Polish stress is often fixed and shows little to no vowel reduction) and sometimes recasting Polish words as Ukrainian ones because the former comes more readily to you (cf. that article about how heterogeneous Ukrainian is). 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6950 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 10 of 151 11 December 2013 at 7:57pm | IP Logged | |||||
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How comfortable are people other than Serpent and I (and maybe Fuenf_Katzen?) when it comes to writing an individual sentence in Polish and/or Ukrainian along the lines of "I see the car in the street" or "That's not a car. It's a truck." with the help of a dictionary and/or explanations from a book or online description of the relevant grammar?
1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5143 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 11 of 151 11 December 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | |||||
My own reasons are - 1. I've been really keen to learn a language with the Cyrillic alphabet for a long time and Russian just feels too mainstream. 2. There are lots of Ukrainians here in the Czech Republic. 3. My father-in-law grew up near the Slovak border with Ukraine and his dialect of Slovak has a strong Ukrainian influence. He also learned the language at school and still understands it completely, so someone to practise with. 4. I'm going to Ukraine for 7-10 days next Summer. Looking at who will be in the team or observing is another bonus. 3 legends of HTLAL and it seems that Fuenf Katzen will also be a good, consistent teammate, having just read her blog from this year. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5128 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 12 of 151 12 December 2013 at 12:08am | IP Logged | |||||
Oh I'd be very comfortable, as soon as I get back to Norway and find a book I can copy it from :-) Seriously, I could not write a sentence in either language right now to save my life. My Ukrainian is non- existent. I can say (but as you see not write) thank you (djakuio), yes (tak) language (mova) be careful (uwaga) -and only because I know that one through Polish - and what( sho sho). My Polish is also non-existent until I start to get stressed while attempting to speak Russian, and my brain goes into panic mode and I start spurting out Polish words. Those would typically be things like (and brace yourself for the spelling here) Dobry djenj, dobry vjecjor, dobranoc, djenkujem, nazyvam cię Cristina, Kocham cię, nie, tak, mam ças, nie mam casu, psheprasham, kochanie, panstvo, ne vjem, nie rozumiem, ja nie movie po polsku, gdje, co to jest, kto to jest, To jest kionska (which is supposed to be book, but I provide the translation since the spelling is even more horrific than on the other words) sklanka, djevetshka. And I can count to ten - possibly to a 100 if the panic attack was strong enough. Ok. I think I'll stop there before I embarrass myself so horribly that I will not dare to post anything ever again. The reason why I lean towards Ukrainian is that I feel a strong connection to Ukraine, I have been there four times in three years, I have very good friends there that I consider family, and I hope to go there again next year. I also have some resources for Ukrainian - a couple of courses and a few films where I can change the subtitles to Ukrainian- I can write a more complete list when I get home. Since I need to get my Russian to a half decent level, I have chosen not to try to learn Ukrainian so far, but at least I could follow what the rest of you do. And for the level I am at, I am sure that you others can help me with what few questions I might have :-) And Polish - ah - Polish is also close to my heart. I met my husband in a Polish course, and I also have Polish friends I care very deeply about. I have been to Poland 5 -6 times. I do however only have resources that are quite literally from the last century ( a book and a cassette) so it is not something I plan to study now. 2 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6391 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 13 of 151 12 December 2013 at 12:53am | IP Logged | |||||
So first of all, it's never v, always w. j is used for the actual sound and not the palatalization. So nazywam, państwo, nie wiem. ę is nasal e and ą is nasal a (pronounced more like o). Hence książka. Finally, the lovely consonants! sh is sz, zh is ż or rz (and all the countless psh is written as prz because it's voiceless after p), hard ch is cz while soft ch is ć. the voiced cz is dż (not present in your words), the voiced ć is dź. in russian these tend to correspond to soft т and д respectively. ś is similar to щ, it's considered a soft sz. but if a soft consonant is not the end of the wor(l)d, it's written as ci, si, zi (soft ż, not like зь) etc, and same happens with b, p, m. btw, ki, ti, ri never occur. (btw cię and ci are forms of ty. -ся/-сь is basically się. So nazywam się. I think *I* can say "nazywam cię Cristina") Combined with the above, you get dzień, dziękuję, czas, przepraszam, gdzie, szklanka. and dziewczyna. and then u which used to be o is written as ó. i wish you Scandinavians did that :PPP So wieczór and mówię. I'm just having fun here! I'm impressed you remember so much. Please don't take that as criticism but just as the desire to spread the love :) Edited by Serpent on 12 December 2013 at 2:12pm 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| Solfrid Cristin Heptaglot Winner TAC 2011 & 2012 Senior Member Norway Joined 5128 days ago 4143 posts - 8864 votes Speaks: Norwegian*, Spanish, Swedish, French, English, German, Italian Studies: Russian | Message 14 of 151 12 December 2013 at 7:46am | IP Logged | |||||
I am just happy for the corrections. Thank you! This is my linguistic version of an AA meeting where you stand up admitting that you're an alcoholic, and then detail HOW you are an alcoholic, the idea being that you cannot change what you cannot acknowledge. You have now seen my worst, so it can only get better from here :-) 3 persons have voted this message useful | ||||||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4472 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 15 of 151 12 December 2013 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | |||||
I could surely do that, yes. Has anybody anywhere mentioned the idea of having a Polish-only team? Or even a Polish-Hungarian one (I know they're not related, but "Lengyel, magyar — két jó barát, együtt harcol s issza borát."..)? 1 person has voted this message useful | ||||||
| hribecek Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 5143 days ago 1243 posts - 1458 votes Speaks: English*, Czech, Spanish Studies: Italian, Polish, Slovak, Hungarian, Toki Pona, Russian | Message 16 of 151 12 December 2013 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | |||||
I could in Polish, but it wouldn't be comfortable and it would have to be simple and I'd probably need a dictionary. My Ukrainian is non-existant and my Cyrillic alphabet knowledge is also very weak, so no way. Why? 1 person has voted this message useful |
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