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Is.t n(y).t r n(y) km.t (Team Egyptian) | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Language Learning Log |  | |
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4456 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes  Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 17 of 43 31 December 2013 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Eh, the extract you've shown of the German dictionary has "k.bh.w", with the bird after the classifier, but in 2 it says "Name des Himmels", i.e. "name of the Sky/Heaven".
I'm a bit ashamed that I had found this Wiktionary page and then failed to notice that it mentioned Sky. :) Also, I'm interested in your ibus input method! And for line 3: First 4 signs are directly covered here as sbA "door". n:3 means "we, us, our" => our f: he, his, she, her So I guess it's "Our door is His door". ? PS: any idea which book would cover prefixes/suffixes in Egyptian? Gardiner? That would make our quests more interesting! Edited by vermillon on 31 December 2013 at 9:13pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5310 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 18 of 43 31 December 2013 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Oops. I didn't see that scrawl scrunched in the middle there. So I guess we're tied 1-to-1 on dictionary fail today. :-)
Sent! Let me know what kind of horrible things it does to your machine. I'm a big believer in learning how to type a language early on, because it makes it much easier to make flash cards. My guess for line 3 is something like:
The big problem with this theory is the first plural marker ๐ฅ. I have no idea what that's doing there. This would give us:
Not bad! We actually got a fair bit of that, though we're almost certainly overlooking quite a few verb endings and prepositions. Go Team ๐๐ค๐๐๐ ๐๐!
Sorry, I have no clue. :-( But do check out the Lorprieno book in the resources list if you ever want to bring some big linguistic guns to bear. It's an amazingly cool book. I think we should totally do some more of these "quests." But in keeping with our generally lazy and chaotic team spirit, we should clearly avoid planning or organizing anything. So here's my proposal: If any of us runs into some cool hieroglyphs that look translatable, we should just go ahead and post them. :-) Edited by emk on 31 December 2013 at 10:38pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| Zireael Triglot Senior Member Poland Joined 4429 days ago 518 posts - 636 votes Speaks: Polish*, EnglishB2, Spanish Studies: German, Sign Language, Tok Pisin, Arabic (Yemeni), Old English | Message 19 of 43 31 December 2013 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
A borrowing from Middle Egyptian into Arabic? O_o 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| vermillon Triglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4456 days ago 602 posts - 1042 votes Speaks: French*, EnglishC2, Mandarin Studies: Japanese, German | Message 20 of 43 01 January 2014 at 12:21am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
That's not what I was implying. In this instance, I don't know, but in any way, the two languages belong to the Afroasiatic family, so they're likely to have similarity. It may simply be cognates. Since there is apparently no consensus about the reconstruction of the parent of Egyptian and Arabic, it is difficult to say.
I've considered buying it. Better would be to have a German equivalent, of course. Unfortunately, despite referencing countless works in German, Assimil doesn't seem to reference anything that you can actually buy, only stuff that's been sitting in university libraries for half a century. But if I find enough time for more reading, this book has definitely retained my attention.
We should definitely do more quests. I'm sure that once I get back on track and as we go through the course, we can tackle more difficult stuff! (that's exciting) Not sure I'll be the person to initiate them, however: my contact with Egyptian is probably going to be pretty much restricted to this thread and Assimil.. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5310 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 21 of 43 01 January 2014 at 3:49am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
To give you an idea of the linguistic relationship between Middle Egyptian and its Afroasiatic siblingsโand of what's relatively unique about Egyptianโlet me quote from the epilogue of Loprieno's book:
In short, not only do we get to play with hieroglyphs, we also get to chew on some delightfully strange grammar. :-)
I'm sure the rest of us can find some challenges. :-) For those who missed out on the Stargate fun, here's another challenge to keep you busy. New Year's Challenge II: Amon de Ramsรจs II This time, let's try some inscriptions from Karnak, courtesy of the Projet d'index global des inscriptions des temples de Karnak: 
ยฉ Cnrs-Cfeetk, small excerpt used under fair use / L122-5. If you follow the link, you can see hi-res photos and transliterations. There's some terrific material there, much of which is closely related to Assimil lesson 30. But lines 5, 6 and 7 are particularly interesting: 
i*(mn:n:n)-<-C1\*C12-N36-ms*s*sw-> X8*anx-f-nb-s*(n:(b*Y1v))-nb Aw-t*ib-nb-(ra:ra)*mi-nb This time, we have transliterations courtesy of Cfeetk. I've taken the liberty of converting them to MdC-style transliterations for use with online dictionaries: imn n(j) ra-ms-sw-mrj-imn d=f anx nb snb nb Awt-ib nb(t) mi ra ra nb EDIT: Added line 5 for context. This is the raw stuff, complete with artistic sign re-ordering and all those other tricks you get in formulaic inscriptions. Since I got to do the last challenge, I'm going to wait a while before tackling this one. :-) Edited by emk on 01 January 2014 at 12:34pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| tarvos Super Polyglot Winner TAC 2012 Senior Member China likeapolyglot.wordpr Joined 4485 days ago 5310 posts - 9399 votes Speaks: Dutch*, English, Swedish, French, Russian, German, Italian, Norwegian, Mandarin, Romanian, Afrikaans Studies: Greek, Modern Hebrew, Spanish, Portuguese, Czech, Korean, Esperanto, Finnish | Message 22 of 43 01 January 2014 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Hey guys! I only got my copy of the รgyptien book yesterday, and still getting the hang
of the script. I hope that in a week's time, when I've covered the basics of the script, I'll be able to join you for some good old-fashioned fun in Egyptian! By the way, log's here: Tarvos' log 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5310 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 23 of 43 02 January 2014 at 12:01am | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
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Excellent news!
I've added a link to your log and I've updated the resources list with various useful goodies from the thread. As for the writing system, here are my current thoughts on what's worth an upfront effort: - The uniliterals: Essential. Learn the Assimil transliteration and MdC code. - The biliterals and triliterals: If you're using my Anki deck, you can probably leave these cards paused until you encounter the signs in Assimil. - The common determinatives: You don't need precise recall here; just the general concept. - Anything beyond the 200 most common signs: Learn only as needed. There's another 700 of these things, most of them rare or self-explanatory. For example: ๐ธ is used with sandals. This is not worth learning except as part of the word "sandal". :-) Also, if you use my Anki deck, you'll probably need to use search-and-replace to replace the broken "i" character with a regular "i". It's great to have you on the team! Edited by emk on 02 January 2014 at 12:02am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||||||||||||||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5310 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 24 of 43 04 January 2014 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | ||||||||||||||
Taking a look at column 1, I see: ๐๐ ๐ ๐ imn n(j) Amon of I'm not quite sure what this first part means, but Cfeerk titles this inscription "Amon of Ramses II", so let's go with that. The next part is fun: ๐น๐๐ฉ๐๐๐ด๐๐บ ra-ms-sw-mrj-imn This is one of the royal names of Ramases II. Acorrding to Titulature dans l'รgypte antique, most Pharaohs had five names: - Nom d'Horus (Horus name) - Nom de Nebty (Nebty name) - Nom d'Horus d'or (Horus of Gold name) - Nom de Nesout-bity (Throne name, from ๐๐๐ค๐, "King of Upper and Lower Egypt") - Nom de Sa-Rรช (Personal name, aka ๐ ญ๐ณ sA ra "Son of Ra" name) According to Wikipedia (click on afficher), this is the sA ra name of Ramses II, one of the best-known Pharaohs. Wikipedia gives us ra msw mry imn "Ramessou Mรฉriamon", which is a great starting point. To unravel this name, we need to know about antรฉposition honorifique, the practice of writing the names of Egyptian gods before other symbols. That takes care of the first two symbols: ๐๐ฉ ra imn Ra Amon Next up we have a form of the verb msi "to create, to give birth to": ๐๐ด๐ msw And finally we have a participle form of mri "to love": ๐ mrj So this name does indeed look like "Ra-born, beloved of Amon". Anybody else want to try a column? :-) Edited by emk on 04 January 2014 at 4:01pm 1 person has voted this message useful |
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