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PMs TAC 2015 crazy? French course mission

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luke
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5682 days ago

3133 posts - 4350 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Esperanto, French

 
 Message 217 of 451
03 November 2014 at 7:08am | IP Logged 
I'm happy to read about your progress Mr. PM. It's also comforting that you are making good progress by
sticking to yoru guns mostly. It's easy to be disuaded from doing something that "feels right" for something
that it seems like "everyone" is doing. Interestingly, for me that is flash cards. I somewhat reluctantly started
using flash cards a few months ago. They are still only about 10 minutes of daily study, but lately I've
wondered if I might should nix that portion of my study. I haven't done that. I added ten fresh cards
yesterday and ten again today. My flashcards are perhaps easier than most, since I've only added word 1120
this morning (from a frequency list).

I guess though we can be comforted that "all roads lead to Rome", or in our case Paris et le monde
francophone.
1 person has voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 218 of 451
04 November 2014 at 1:28am | IP Logged 
luke wrote:
I'm happy to read about your progress Mr. PM. It's also comforting that you are making good
progress by
sticking to yoru guns mostly. It's easy to be disuaded from doing something that "feels right" for something
that it seems like "everyone" is doing. Interestingly, for me that is flash cards. I somewhat reluctantly started
using flash cards a few months ago. They are still only about 10 minutes of daily study, but lately I've
wondered if I might should nix that portion of my study. I haven't done that. I added ten fresh cards
yesterday and ten again today. My flashcards are perhaps easier than most, since I've only added word 1120
this morning (from a frequency list).

I guess though we can be comforted that "all roads lead to Rome", or in our case Paris et le monde
francophone.


Hey Luke, I concur with your pondering on the doing away with flashcards. Together with your advice
regarding FIA I've decided to change up my study routine.

Current study routine (rotation of four hours- 4 hours are not necessarily done in one day):
1st hour: 30min flashcard reviews + 30min intensive course study: Assimil NFWE
2nd hour: 30min FC rev's + Extensive Reading
3rd hour: 30min FC rev's + Intensive course study: Fluenz French 3
4th hour: 0-30min FC rev's + 30-60min Extensive Reading/or watching

The current system I have above allows me to focus on 2 courses intensively (trying to make my way through
an endless amount of them) which allows my analytical nature to retain a (sometimes forced) smile on its
face. The extensive reading and some extensive watching allows for wider exposure to what would otherwise
be unknown vocab and leave me floating around in a world of limited well known vocab that can't be
expanded upon. Recent re-reading over an article on the value of extensive reading leaves me convinced
that extensive language exposure via reading and to a marginally lesser degree, watching, is an absolute
essential component to a serious language learner's study routine. Courses aid to complement the extensive
activities by breaking down language into to bite size chunks, which of course is also essential in my opinion -
extensive exposure (let's say immersion) with a language from day one without intensive focus at some point
will result imo (based on readings) obvious downfalls in one's reproduction of the language - unless of course
you are a polyglot who is acutely aware of grammatical concepts via extensive reading/listening/watching.
That's not me, and that is very rare imo. Thus a combination is best for me.

Luke suggested I do FIA and as an FIA groupie I feel it's time to honour the course through to its finale. So I
will drop Fluenz French 3 (by no means a bad course, in fact the best CD/DVD-rom based course I've used to
date- highly recommended imo) and replace it with FIA. During my hour of FIA I will not use FC's in any way. I
may look up the occasional words in the dictionary not for meaning but for phonetics - I don't want to learn the
stranger irregular pronounced words phoneticaly incorrect thereby reinforcing bad pronounciation. I expect
those look-up instances to be rare.

Revised routine version 1
1st hour: French in Action
2nd hour: 30min FC reviews + Extensive Reading (Vivre sans vaccins)
3rd hour: 30min FC rev's + 30min Assimil NFWE
4th hour: 0-30min FC rev's + 30-60min Extensive Reading/or watching

I've decided to take this a little further... Flashcards are annoying me and have been for some time. For
November and December I've decided to ditch them absolutely completely as an experiment. I'll continue
studying thus I'll stil advance with my French. ie I'll either advance more slowly or more rapidly. At the very
least I'll learn not to be so attached to the FC's and come 2015 I may decide to reintroduce them in a
healthier way that will result in a healthier balance between FC's and the rest of my learning activities. Thus
here's my new routine:

1st hour: French in Action
2nd hour: Extensive Reading
3rd hour: Assimil NFWE
4th hour: Extensive reading/or extensive watching

I quietly doubt whether I can sustain this knowing my own OCD like approach to exposure to new words
particularly with courses. However I'll certainly try. Can't do me any harm the way I see it. If I feel like it has
my FC deck will still be there come 2015.

Good luck to me, this could kill me... ahhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhhh!

PS
Certain studies of dedicated language students have found that flashcards are in fact very addictive.
Addiction to substances is viewed as an innate yet newly constructed physiological or psychological drive that
is extremely difficult to overcome. What drives one to seek the substance in question is the pleasure derived
from the ingestion or injection of the substance, ie its psychological and physiological effects. Unusually there
also exists a sub, or side group of 'study addicts' according to B.Morovich, 2013. However this is not
necessarily viewed as negative behaviour, but it can become so. In terms of language students, tendencies to
over utilize flashcards as a tool for learning could be so negative in fact that it mimics drug seeking behaviour.
Yet scientists want to streamline the process and remove the anti-social behaviour associated with the
flashcard seeking behaviour. Research currently underway at the University of Dordrecth, BS is looking into
ways in which flashcards could be biologically streamlined into the nervous system, thereby bypassing the
cumbersome issues associated with memory and constant reproduction. In other words new words to be
learned would be introduced via various yet to be disclosed avenues of input and firmly logded directed into
one's CNS. Such methods are not new to neuroscience, but are newer for second and third language
acquisition.
1 person has voted this message useful



Jeffers
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 3386 days ago

2151 posts - 3960 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Hindi, Ancient Greek, French, Sanskrit, German

 
 Message 219 of 451
04 November 2014 at 8:23am | IP Logged 
PeterMollenburg wrote:
Research currently underway at the University of Dordrecth, BS is looking into
ways in which flashcards could be biologically streamlined into the nervous system, thereby bypassing the
cumbersome issues associated with memory and constant reproduction. In other words new words to be
learned would be introduced via various yet to be disclosed avenues of input and firmly logded directed into
one's CNS. Such methods are not new to neuroscience, but are newer for second and third language
acquisition.


I've already tried eating flashcards, it doesn't work. For another method, read message 104 in
this thread.

I stopped making new cards about a month ago, because I was getting too many reviews per day. I'll start adding new cards again when my reviews are consistently below 100 per day, every day.
4 persons have voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 220 of 451
04 November 2014 at 9:56pm | IP Logged 
Jeffers wrote:
PeterMollenburg wrote:
Research currently underway at the University of Dordrecth,
BS is looking into
ways in which flashcards could be biologically streamlined into the nervous system, thereby bypassing the
cumbersome issues associated with memory and constant reproduction. In other words new words to be
learned would be introduced via various yet to be disclosed avenues of input and firmly logded directed into
one's CNS. Such methods are not new to neuroscience, but are newer for second and third language
acquisition.


I've already tried eating flashcards, it doesn't work. For another method, read message 104 in
this
thread
.

I stopped making new cards about a month ago, because I was getting too many reviews per day. I'll start
adding new cards again when my reviews are consistently below 100 per day, every day.


Haha, I like that dude's sense of humour (msg 104 in the link). Hadn't thought about eating flashcards myself,
I could try eating my phone which has them all stored on it, but then how do I answer a call? Maybe I'll be
able to do away with a cumbersome phone and have my own 'internal bluetooth' of sorts post ingestion.
Excellent idea!

Yeah Jeffers I know the feeling, hence my doing away for FCs for the moment, which I must say i'm rather
apprehensive about (withdrawl symptom). Not sure 100% clean, cold turkey is the way to go yet.


1 person has voted this message useful



luke
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 5682 days ago

3133 posts - 4350 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish
Studies: Esperanto, French

 
 Message 221 of 451
05 November 2014 at 12:50am | IP Logged 
Peter, if you use Anki, is love too see your summary graph.
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PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 222 of 451
06 November 2014 at 12:37am | IP Logged 
@ Luke. I've been meaning to give Anki a go actually. I will try it, but i'm not ready for it just yet as I actually
don't mind my FC program, very versatile, but I do want to compare at some point.

@ Jeffers I know the feeling of the build up of cards... and your idea of simply not entering new cards it's a
very logical one indeed :)
-------------------------------------- --------------------------------------

I think I will change my mind yet again on FCs tho. I'll continue with them, but just reduce them, so forget all
that BS about me going FC cold turkey for the rest of the year, i'm just going to try a more sensible approach.
Wow, I make such bold statements and then backflip almost immediately. Feel free to label me indecisive. So
this is my new routine which believe it or not is a lot less FC heavy (feel free to ignore it completely, it'll be
irrelevant in a week):

•     1 heure intensive :
     French in Action
     pas de FCs

•     1 heure extensive :
     15 min FCs
     45 min Lecture
     Limite de 1 nouveau mot dans FCs

•     1 heure intensive :
     15 min FCs
     45 min Assimil NFWE
     Tous nouveaux mots dans FCs
     
•     1 heure extensive :
     15 min FCs
     45 min série/film/lecture     
     Limite de 1 nouveau mot dans FCs
------------------------------------- --------------------------------------
I thought I was past my smart phone dilemmas. I've been letting this major headache get in the way of my
studying. Now I need to learn to draw my attention back to my routine, solve such dilemmas outside of study
time and soldier on... I'm at risk here of really losing touch...

Here goes :)

PS On my routine commute home (didn't even feel like listening to anything on the way to work yesterday as I
was so pissed at iTunes).. on the way home I wasn't overly keen on listening to my usual Rocket French (it's
not that easy), so I opted to try something that I was partially motivated to do - I began Pimsleur IV. I must say
the first unit seems like a walk in the park compared to Rocket French Premium Plus, so I'll mix it up from
here on with some new and some older stuff.

Fry on!
1 person has voted this message useful



PeterMollenburg
Senior Member
AustraliaRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3953 days ago

821 posts - 1273 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: FrenchB1

 
 Message 223 of 451
10 November 2014 at 4:54am | IP Logged 
I've yet again slightly altered my study regime. It's unnecessary to post it, the main
thing is I study. I have been doing a bit each day but far less than i'd like. My
phone yet again has devoured a lot of my time as I struggle to fathom how Apple could
stuff things up so badly lately driving me to the point of insanity. Mind you just
because I like their products doesn't mean i'm naive enough to consider them perfect,
or squeaky clean for that matter, because they're not.

...anyway I have started French in Action. Currently on lesson 3. I should be further
along as I'm basically going over things i've done 10 times before at least, but as
stated i'm not studying as much as i'd like to be. These early lessons are child's
play really and i'm keen to move on. I'm not writing anything i've written before and
I don't see any need to view/listen to anything twice. early this year or late last
year i was up to lesson 15, so i'm keen to move beyond that. 1998 I got to lesson 26,
this time I want to make it to 52. Trick is to stop letting 'issues' get in my way no
matter how much i feel compelled to resolve them.. i have everything i need without my
iphone, that can be sorted in due time.

Assimil NFWE
Still reviewing, slow progress there, no new lessons covered

Pimsleur 4
Underway and currently on units 3 and 4

Rocket French Premium Plus
Hovering around the final lessons, dragging my feet

Reading
Although I did complete some easy reader material and a childrens book (very small
book) I consider I just officially finished my first real book in French (not a book
by the SC standard of 50 pages, but an entire book- don't have it with me unsure of
nbr of pages). I'll go back through it again and read more of course, but I did make
it to the end. The book is 'Vivre sans vaccins' anecdotal evidence of the health
benefits of children raised without vaccines. Some parents gave the reg vaccines to
some of their children then changed opinion and raised their later children without
vaccines... interesting comparisons throughout the book. A very controversial subject.
Easy reading as it is not bogged down in scientific jargon but contains accounts of
experiences of ppl from around the world (ie straight forward language). As I enjoy
reading about a lot of health related topics (usually not mainstream, often
controversial) this has been an enjoyable book indeed :) Probably a good book to
continue on with other tougher anti-vaccine related books I have that use the more
scientific information.
1 person has voted this message useful



Mohave
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/Mohave1
Joined 2484 days ago

291 posts - 444 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: French

 
 Message 224 of 451
10 November 2014 at 7:31am | IP Logged 
PeterMollenberg - congrats on finishing your first real book in French! :). Way to go!!

Glad to find someone who has started Pimsleur IV. After you complete a few more lessons, I would enjoy
your thoughts on it.. I am nearly finished with Pimsleur III, And trying to get Pimsleur IV on an InterLibrary
Loan (which is looking doubtful right now), So, it looks like I will need to purchase it, if the ILL doesn't work
out. Therefore, I would appreciate your thoughts before I purchase it as it is a little pricey!

Also, you have reminded me I still need to finish the last lessons of FIA. I have just done video and textbooks
to-date. Do you do audio, workbooks, etc and do you also recommend that portion of the program?

Keep up the great work!




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