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How do polyglots do it? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| 1e4e6 Octoglot Senior Member United Kingdom Joined 4077 days ago 1013 posts - 1588 votes  Speaks: English*, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Norwegian, Dutch, Swedish, Italian Studies: German, Danish, Russian, Catalan | Message 153 of 159 13 January 2014 at 3:35am | IP Logged | ||
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I have an uncle who lives in Beaconsfield in Île Ouest who moved thereto from Liverpool
in 1968, and says that he rarely uses French somehow. So I suppose each barrio has its own language criteria. When he last visited, he spoke French with us just for fun for several minutes instead of English. His French was not very good (not that mine is any good or anything). Also, the last time that I was in the Netherlands, I also had go to the A&E/clinic at Schiphol two hours before the connecting flight. Might as well use an opportunity to speak the language. Edited by 1e4e6 on 13 January 2014 at 3:39am 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
 emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5319 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 154 of 159 13 January 2014 at 5:18am | IP Logged | ||
Eh, if somebody addresses me in flawlessly native English—fast, no French accent whatsoever, perfect intonation—they can speak English to me if they want to. For all I know, they're actually an anglophone. What's amazing, at least in the neighborhood I visit the most, is how often my wife and I disagree about somebody's native language. She'll be convinced they're a native French speaker, and I'll be convinced they're a native English speaker. And after speaking French for nearly two years at home, day in and day out, it's not like I need to insist on speaking French with people who obviously speak English just as well as I do, just to get in some extra practice. There are plenty of people in Montreal who would really prefer to speak French, and I'll run into one of them soon enough. 4 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| jpmtl Diglot Groupie Canada Joined 3789 days ago 44 posts - 115 votes Speaks: French*, English Studies: Spanish, Russian | Message 155 of 159 13 January 2014 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | ||
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This isn't my experience. The vast majority of people IMO have a clear accent in one of the 2 languages.
People who grow up in a predominantly English-speaking neighbourhood like Westmount usually speak French like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPcWExAna88 Which isn't at all how native French Quebecers speak. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| emk Diglot Moderator United States Joined 5319 days ago 2615 posts - 8806 votes Speaks: English*, FrenchB2 Studies: Spanish, Ancient Egyptian Personal Language Map | Message 156 of 159 13 January 2014 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | ||
If I had to guess, I'd say that the woman was an anglophone. She's quite comfortable in French, but she sounds like an English-speaker aiming for a European accent, with just a touch of Quebec. As for the announcer in the beginning, and the interviewer on the right, my first guess would be that they're both francophones. If they're anglophones, they're certainly good enough to fool me for a couple of minutes. For example, this section here sounds entirely native to my ear. But then again, I wouldn't notice any subtle errors—I mostly hear fast French with lots of dipthongs and those closed front nasal vowels, and I can't pick up on any of the subtle details that another local would hear. When I say somebody sounds bilingual, I mean that they speak Quebecois French at least as well as the guy on the right, and that their English sounds better than Luca's. And there are neighborhoods around Montreal where these people are a noticeable minority of the population—between 10% and 20% of people who work with the public. In fact, when I wound up in a hospital emergency room near Lakeshore, maybe 75% of the staff who spoke with me were sufficiently good that I never did guess whether they were francophones with excellent English, anglophones with excellent French, or straight up bilinguals. I'm sure you'd have much better luck figuring it out than I did. (Among themselves, they spoke about 75% French, 25% English.) When speaking to people like that, it always feels rude to choose a language unilaterally. I'll default to French, and I'll politely turn down the first offer to switch the conversation to English (if they make one). But if they really prefer English, I'm happy to speak it. My goal is generally to be courteous and to fit in—and this almost always gives me lots of opportunities to practice my French anyway. The only time I get really militant about speaking French is when it's the best way to include everybody in the conversation. In that case, if a single French speaker is insisting on speaking English, then I'll do that thing where I translate all their questions into French and then respond in French. This way, at least I include the other French speakers in the conversation, even if the offender is too boorish to take the hint. Edited by emk on 13 January 2014 at 6:17pm 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| s_allard Triglot Senior Member Canada Joined 5217 days ago 2704 posts - 5425 votes Speaks: French*, English, Spanish Studies: Polish | Message 157 of 159 13 January 2014 at 8:39pm | IP Logged | ||
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On this thing about switching to English in Montreal, I would like to point out there are two distinct phenomena
exhibited by native French speakers. One is the insertion of English words and phrases into French. One could argue that these words have been absorbed into French. Classic examples are "Oh my God". "Over my dead body" and "Be my guest," among many others. People will even know the lyrics to entire songs. True code-switching, where the person changes to English, happens, as I pointed out, usually to accomodate an interlocutor who seems to be having difficulty participating actively. Although there is certainly a sizable part of the Montreal population that is natively bilingual, i.e. equally at ease in both languages, it's hard to put a figure on this phenomenon. Typically, these are the chidren of bilingual households. What is very striking, but not the same thing as native bilingualism is high English-language proficiency on the part of francophones in certain fields or professions. People working in the tourism and hospitality industry, actors, singers, musicians, politicians, police, especially in the federal force, the RCMP, academics, professional athletes, customs and immigration officers, etc. These are people who have a lot of contact with English. They may speak it very well for professional purposes, but their primary language is French. I have to say that all this is in a state of flux because of the generalization of French immersion programs in the English school system and the very significant number of anglophone parents who choose to send their children to French-language schools. In my opinion we are already seeing the rise of the anglophones with high- proficiency in French. Edited by s_allard on 14 January 2014 at 5:16am 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Spanky Senior Member Canada Joined 5743 days ago 1021 posts - 1714 votes Studies: French | Message 158 of 159 13 January 2014 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | ||
True... but as the English say, "c'est la vie" 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4409 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 159 of 159 13 January 2014 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | ||
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Mind you, English has pinched a lot of phrases from French over the years.
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