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Sigh. Wasted an Immersion Stay....

  Tags: Immersion
 Language Learning Forum : General discussion Post Reply
Lykeio
Senior Member
United Kingdom
Joined 4003 days ago

120 posts - 357 votes 

 
 Message 1 of 8
06 January 2014 at 10:22am | IP Logged 
In a language I sort of once knew fairly well - you know, the usual, several textbooks,
podcasts etc. Admittedly its been a good 18 months since I've looked at said language
but I recall the grammar remarkably well and a sizeable chunk on vocabulary so I
figured that in three weeks it would reactive well. It did not.

It's been miserable. Apparently the fact that I've a near native accent (I'm a
philologist, which means running lots and lots of drills. Plus natively multilingual)
who occasionally defaults on random words is funny. It is! Or rather it normally would
be but when I'm struggling to remember the language I really can't be bothered for the
ribbing, no matter how good natured and I quickly just defaulted to English. With
sticking to ordering food and drink, buying items etc in the target language.

Also, fast. Everyone speaks so damn fast - especially my friends - that I honestly just
can't follow anything. I'm not saying speak like turtles, but I've long been bored of
asking to slow down slightly or repeat comments. The worst is people who take someone
questioning a single word as a cue to turn to English.

Passive activities like watching films were all well and good. On the other hand the
environment has been pretty damn awful for me - I can see in general why people prefer
structured courses in their target countries now and I think I definitely am giving up
this language since I've got too many to keep active as it is.

I've got less than 72 hours left here and I'm honestly, for the first time ever, glad
I'm leaving a target country. Anybody else have any similar bad experiences? Sorry, I
just needed to vent a little.
5 persons have voted this message useful



kanewai
Triglot
Senior Member
United States
justpaste.it/kanewai
Joined 4648 days ago

1386 posts - 3054 votes 
Speaks: English*, French, Marshallese
Studies: Italian, Spanish

 
 Message 2 of 8
06 January 2014 at 10:38am | IP Logged 
Oh yeah. I've had the same, if less intense, experiences.

My worst was with Spanish in Mexico. I went one February after studying pretty
intensely, and did really well. As in: I rarely had to use English, even though
my grammar was rough and vocabulary limited.

I went back six months later, but the only Spanish studying I did was with Assimil. I
had just discovered the course via HTLAL, and I was totally enamored. Until I got off
the bus and had to speak. I sucked. I totally and completely sucked. It was like, all
my speaking abilities were just gone, even though I technically I had a better
understanding of the language than six months before.

So you live and learn. I've learned that I need to focus specifically on speaking the
TL, that I can't get by just on reading, movies, and Assimil.

================================

But also, it's possible that you're being harder on yourself than you need to be.

When I reach an A-1 level in a language, I think I'm a frikkin' genius, and that I'm
only a few steps away from fluency. I'm excited when I can do little things, like order
a cocktail at a bar and actually get what I ordered. When I reach a B-level, I realize
just how much I don't know, and sometimes feel that I know less than I did at A-1. The
mind works funny like that.
8 persons have voted this message useful





Iversen
Super Polyglot
Moderator
Denmark
berejst.dk
Joined 6462 days ago

9078 posts - 16473 votes 
Speaks: Danish*, French, English, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Dutch, Swedish, Esperanto, Romanian, Catalan
Studies: Afrikaans, Greek, Norwegian, Russian, Serbian, Icelandic, Latin, Irish, Lowland Scots, Indonesian, Polish, Croatian
Personal Language Map

 
 Message 3 of 8
06 January 2014 at 2:52pm | IP Logged 
I just don't try to speak a language before I know that I can think fluent and beautiful thoughts in it - then I know that I at least can utter simple and primitive things with a pronunciation that isn't terrible enough to prevent willing natives to guess what I say. For some reason jumping from thinking and writing to speaking just sets me a step or two back on the CEFR scale, but after a few days I have normally catched up and can have reasonably fluent conversations.

With languages that aren't yet ready to be made public I try keeping some sort of parallel dialog going on while I speak with natives in irrelevant languages - or in other words: I try to do a oon the fly translation the whole thing while we speak, and of course it doesn't result in something I would dare letting loose in public, but it is a good training in getting momentum and speed in the target langage. And when I walk around in the street I try to express all my thoughts in the target language, which is much easier when I'm are surrounded by utterances in that language.

And normally it is fairly obvious when the necessary background level is reached so that I can begin using the language for more than simple 'tourist' phrases.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Cavesa
Triglot
Senior Member
Czech Republic
Joined 4768 days ago

3277 posts - 6779 votes 
Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1
Studies: Spanish, German, Italian

 
 Message 4 of 8
06 January 2014 at 5:17pm | IP Logged 
kanewai wrote:

So you live and learn. I've learned that I need to focus specifically on speaking the
TL, that I can't get by just on reading, movies, and Assimil.


Well, I found the movies (especially large doses of tv series) to make a crucial difference. While I would never underestimate the need for sufficient knowledge of grammar, pronunciation practice and using opportunities to speak, this is what sent my real speaking abilities several levels higher and I count on it to help with my other languages as well.

Only sufficient doses of listening prepare me well for the speed of natives, for the real language they use, and for thinking in the language in order to react with reasonable speed. While it is not the only thing needed (really, I believe learning grammar, no matter how, is sooo underestimated among learners and some don't even find out that may be the matter behind their poor active skills), it makes a huge difference, in my opinion.

What country were you in, Lukeio?

I hope you'll recover from these unfulfilled expectations soon. It just happens sometimes, I'm sure you'll enjoy such an opportunity more next time.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Hekje
Diglot
Senior Member
United States
Joined 4462 days ago

842 posts - 1330 votes 
Speaks: English*, Dutch
Studies: French, Indonesian

 
 Message 5 of 8
06 January 2014 at 5:21pm | IP Logged 
I've felt the same way at various times. Please, try not to beat yourself up about it. The most important thing is
that you have fun with your friends. If you do that in your target language, great. If you do it through English, that's
fine too.

Edited by Hekje on 06 January 2014 at 5:22pm

1 person has voted this message useful



tlanguell
Newbie
United StatesRegistered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 3798 days ago

24 posts - 54 votes 
Speaks: English*
Studies: Vietnamese

 
 Message 6 of 8
06 January 2014 at 5:40pm | IP Logged 
I had similar experience here in Vietnam. I tried speaking to a pretty chef near where I
live and only gibberish came out of my mouth. Of course she doesn't speak English so our
exchange was so painful I felt like jumping into the Saigon River! But I recalled that I
had waited years before talking to non-English speakers in Thailand and China and I've
only been here 5 months so at least I summoned the courage to do so.
2 persons have voted this message useful



Duke100782
Bilingual Diglot
Senior Member
Philippines
https://talktagalog.Registered users can see my Skype Name
Joined 4247 days ago

172 posts - 240 votes 
Speaks: English*, Tagalog*
Studies: Spanish, Mandarin

 
 Message 7 of 8
07 January 2014 at 5:32pm | IP Logged 
I've been living for more than a year and a half in Chongqing, China, still fluency eludes me. I just got to keep
forcing myself to speak more and more, and studying more and more. I feel that I've wasted a year and half
not having learned how to speak yet! It gives me a terrible feeling! Time is so precious!

Edited by Duke100782 on 07 January 2014 at 5:33pm

1 person has voted this message useful



culebrilla
Senior Member
United States
Joined 3756 days ago

246 posts - 436 votes 
Speaks: Spanish

 
 Message 8 of 8
07 January 2014 at 11:44pm | IP Logged 
Lykeio wrote:
In a language I sort of once knew fairly well - you know, the usual, several textbooks,
podcasts etc. Admittedly its been a good 18 months since I've looked at said language
but I recall the grammar remarkably well and a sizeable chunk on vocabulary so I
figured that in three weeks it would reactive well. It did not.

It's been miserable. Apparently the fact that I've a near native accent (I'm a
philologist, which means running lots and lots of drills. Plus natively multilingual)
who occasionally defaults on random words is funny. It is! Or rather it normally would
be but when I'm struggling to remember the language I really can't be bothered for the
ribbing, no matter how good natured and I quickly just defaulted to English. With
sticking to ordering food and drink, buying items etc in the target language.

Also, fast. Everyone speaks so damn fast - especially my friends - that I honestly just
can't follow anything. I'm not saying speak like turtles, but I've long been bored of
asking to slow down slightly or repeat comments. The worst is people who take someone
questioning a single word as a cue to turn to English.

Passive activities like watching films were all well and good. On the other hand the
environment has been pretty damn awful for me - I can see in general why people prefer
structured courses in their target countries now and I think I definitely am giving up
this language since I've got too many to keep active as it is.

I've got less than 72 hours left here and I'm honestly, for the first time ever, glad
I'm leaving a target country. Anybody else have any similar bad experiences? Sorry, I
just needed to vent a little.


Don't feel bad man. To be honest, three weeks is actually very little time. If you REALLY want to get it good you can live 1, 10, or 20 years abroad. Or if you are EXTREMELY motivated, you can form your own language cocoon with native speakers at home, advanced speakers close to your house, watching videos, talking to native speakers online, or what not.


1 person has voted this message useful



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