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Is this impolite ? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : General discussion |  | |
| daegga Tetraglot Senior Member Austria lang-8.com/553301 Joined 4301 days ago 1076 posts - 1792 votes  Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Swedish, Norwegian Studies: Danish, French, Finnish, Icelandic | Message 17 of 24 09 January 2014 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | ||
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I would feel like a fool talking to a fellow Upper Austrian in Standard German,
especially when the topic doesn't immediately concern anybody else. And I speak Standard German on an almost daily basis. A lot of Austrians don't, in some parts you can live your whole life happily without saying a single sentence of Standard German, even in school. Germans are approached in dialect too, even on a trip to Germany 1000km away from the border. When they ask to repeat in Standard German, this will be done, for 1 or 2 sentences, then the average Austrian will unconsciously switch back to dialect. Some are stubborn and will only repeat slower - but still in dialect (I once overheard an Austrian doing this to a German tourist in Austria). The older, the worse actually, and people are just not realizing how impolite they are. I think you shouldn't have that much problem "forcing" a bunch of younger Austrian to talk in Standard German the whole evening, but you need to be persistent because the unconsciously switching back to dialect thingy is still common. edit: Did you even tell them you didn't understand them at that moment? Because that's not necessarily obvious to an Austrian. Edited by daegga on 09 January 2014 at 9:04pm 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| albysky Triglot Senior Member Italy lang-8.com/1108796Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4168 days ago 287 posts - 393 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German | Message 18 of 24 10 January 2014 at 10:28am | IP Logged | ||
For sure I did , i told them i understood 1 word out of 100 . My considaration is that you can be very very good at German ,say C2 , but you won 't be able to understand a dialect unless you had lots and lots of contact with it , it could mean living in the country for years since there are no books to learn dialects. I find it peculiar that even for young people in some places speaking standard German is something so unusual and they are not very comfortable doing that . 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| beano Diglot Senior Member United KingdomRegistered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4402 days ago 1049 posts - 2152 votes Speaks: English*, German Studies: Russian, Serbian, Hungarian | Message 19 of 24 10 January 2014 at 11:01am | IP Logged | ||
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Ultimately, I think experienced non-native speakers can "tune in" to most dialects after a while. They might not understand everything but they will start to get the hang of it. But it can certainly be baffling at first.
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| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 4782 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 20 of 24 10 January 2014 at 11:14am | IP Logged | ||
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(...) For sure I did , i told them i understood 1 word out of 100 . (...)
If somebody told me that, I certainly would make an extra effort not to speak in dialect. I have foreign visitors quite often and when I talk to my family members and/or friends in front of them, I always use standard German (provided my foreign guests speak German, of course). While I would not speak standard German with my family members if we are alone, it is quite normal to resort to the standard variant if foreigners who study German but are not familiar with our dialect are present. My parents, who never studied any foreign language at school (they are in their 70ies and 80ies), don't find that weird at all. They normally also try to respond in standard German, even though it is harder for them than for me. It is all about adjusting yourself to your environment. I think all Austrians should be able to hold a conversation in standard German. I like both, my dialect and standard German. The only thing I really think is sad is the fact that more and more typically Austrian expressions are getting lost due to the immense influence of German private TV stations. I am not talking about dialects here but about the Austrian variant of standard German (yes, there is such a thing, just as there is a Swiss variant of standard German). I was almost shocked when I asked my nephew a few years ago if he could get me some "Paradeiser" and he then asked me what that was. Even though most people now use "Tomaten", I found it sad that an Austrian no longer knows what "Paradeiser" are. In my family I am the only one left saying "Servus", while all the others mostly use "Tschüss". My niece's son recently even used "gucken" instead of "schauen". They get all that from the cartoons on TV etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be nationalistic. I think it is wonderful that there are different variants of German. But if one variant is spreading at the expense of others, I think that is sad. It is not the Germans that are to "blame" for this, but those Austrians who seem to have little appreciation of their own language. Some may say this is just the way things are, personally I think it is sad and I make a conscious effort to not use terms such as "gucken" and "tschüss" etc. (actually, it is not so much an effort for me but a natural thing). Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way Germans speak and since most foreigners learn their variant, I'm used to hearing foreigners saying things such as "gucken" etc. and I certainly don't mind them doing so. I guess it is the same with any other language that is spoken in different regions (English, French, Spanish, Portuguese for example). As for the comprehensibility of our dialects, I have to say I'm not sure either (daegga pointed this out as well) to what extent I am comprehensible to a foreigner. Personally, I think my dialect (I live in Styria/Steiermark but don't speak the local dialect but rather some sort of mixture because even though I grew up here my family used to travel so much around Austria that we spoke and continue to speak a mixture of dialects at home) is not that difficult to understand but I may be wrong. It may be easier to understand when it is spoken than in writing (especially since there is no clear set of spelling rules for our dialects). Example: "I geh ham" as opposed to "Ich gehe heim" (or: Ich gehe nach Hause). "I mog net" as opposed to "Ich mag nicht" "Des waß i net" as opposed to "Das weiß ich nicht" "Waunn kummst heit ham?" as opposed to "Wann kommst du heute heim?" I think a bigger problem would be idiomatic expressions, such as "bist gscheit, des tuat weh!" "gscheit" actually comes from "gescheit" which means "smart, intelligent". "tuat weh" is easy because it is very close to the standard form "tut weh" (= es schmerzt). The expression "bist gscheit", however, is an interjection meaning something like "Gee" (gee, that hurts!). Or expressions that have their roots in languages spoken in the former Habsburg empire, such as "Teschek". "Herst, i bin jo net dei Teschek, moch des söba" (roughly something like "I'm not your slave", "I'm not your servant"). "moch des söba" = mach das selbst = do it yourself. "Teschek" (some spell it as "Deschek") is a person that is constantly taken advantage of by others. It is mostly used in Vienna and Lower Austria, as far as I know, but I use it a lot too because my dad is from Upper Austria and my mom originally from Vienna and I went to school in different provinces and thus got exposed to various dialects. If I am not mistaken, "Teschek" comes from the Hungarian "tessék". I forgot what the actual meaning of the Hungarian word is though (I'll have to look it up again). Anyway, don't give up on us Austrians yet ;-). You'll find plenty of people talking to you in standard German and as time goes by you'll get used to our dialects provided you get enough exposure. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| albysky Triglot Senior Member Italy lang-8.com/1108796Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4168 days ago 287 posts - 393 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German | Message 21 of 24 10 January 2014 at 2:08pm | IP Logged | ||
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To Robert : I won ' t absolutely give up on you austrians :-). I like hearing different variants of the standard
, i like both the austrian , the swiss and the southern Germany standard variants . i honestly must say that i don ' t have much experience with dialects . All the exposure I have with German comes from the radio , some tv documentaries and series and some audiobook which are 9o per cent pure hochdeutsch , you Sometimes get to hear the austrian and southern Germany standard variants and rarely some dialects . I must admit that the dialect of upper Austria and swiss German as well are as much comprehnsible as dutch for me :-) . I also tried to find some audiobooks and radio stations in standard audstrian but I did not succeed . For a foreigner who wants to learn German abroad hochdeutsch is the only option . Unfortunately it is not like for English that you can find lots and lots of material both in british and american English. By the way in a month or so i should remeet the same austrians , since they come visit my granpa again . and i 'll have to be there to translate . We 'll see what happens . Edited by albysky on 10 January 2014 at 2:25pm 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Chung Diglot Senior Member Joined 6936 days ago 4228 posts - 8259 votes 20 sounds Speaks: English*, French Studies: Polish, Slovak, Uzbek, Turkish, Korean, Finnish | Message 22 of 24 10 January 2014 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | ||
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That's interesting about those developments in Austrian German. When I was studying German, I remember one of my professors giving us a summary of differences between the German variants. Your examples of 'Servus' and 'Paradeiser' reminded me of his lecture.
Tessék is a subjunctive form of tetszeni "to appeal, please". It's used in situations where you'd use "here you go", "please (e.g. have a seat/take some candy etc.)" or even "pardon me? (I didn't understand you the first time)". Now that I think of it its functions are often the counterpart to "bitte?". I can see how its meaning changes to refer to a person who is easily manipulated to perform someone else's bidding. (cf. doormat or someone's "bïŧ¢ћ"). 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Rob_Austria Heptaglot Groupie Austria Joined 4782 days ago 84 posts - 293 votes Speaks: German*, Italian, Spanish, French, English, Portuguese, Japanese Studies: Croatian, Mandarin, Russian, Arabic (Written), Turkish | Message 23 of 24 10 January 2014 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | ||
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(...) I also tried to find some audiobooks and radio stations in standard audstrian but I did
not succeed . (...) You can try our radio station "Ö 1". Here is the link to their podcasts: http://oe1.orf.at/podcast Audiobooks by Austrian authors read by Austrians (with lots of typical Austrian expressions such as "Pantscherl" ;-)): http://www.audiamo.at/Hoerbuch-Glueck_ist_was_fuer_Augenblic ke.pid.9783990220955.htm http://www.audiamo.at/Hoerbuch-Wie_man_mit_einem_neurotische n_Hund_lebt.pid.9783950294811.htm http://www.audiamo.at/Hoerbuch-Wenn_man_trotzdem_lacht.pid.9 783990220764.htm I don't know of any free sites where you can access audiobooks read by Austrians. 3 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| albysky Triglot Senior Member Italy lang-8.com/1108796Registered users can see my Skype Name Joined 4168 days ago 287 posts - 393 votes Speaks: Italian*, English, German | Message 24 of 24 10 January 2014 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | ||
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Thanks a lot for the suggestions Robert !
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