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Anki - which way round? | ||
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 Language Learning Forum : Learning Techniques, Methods & Strategies |  | |
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4804 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes  Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 9 of 22 13 January 2014 at 12:39am | IP Logged | ||
That's not entirely true. I always have a huge gap between the passive and active vocabulary and using an SRS has helped activate a lot of the passive vocab I had been unable to use for years. I actually believe using SRS for comprehention (front L2, back L1) is a waste of time, at least when it comes to usual languages (I guess languages like Mandarin are a different league so I don't dare to judge there). 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| druckfehler Triglot Senior Member Germany Joined 4663 days ago 1181 posts - 1912 votes Speaks: German*, EnglishC2, Korean Studies: Persian | Message 10 of 22 13 January 2014 at 1:51am | IP Logged | ||
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I do L2 (front) - L! (back), but as I use Anki to listen to audio sentences, I guess it might not be comparable to other people's experiences with words only. I wouldn't even call what I do studying, it's simply exposure. As soon as I listened to a sentence enough times, it sticks in my head and usually stays there.
Personally, I think drilling single words is a waste of time. You could learn much more during the same time if you at least contextualised them with whole sentences. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4804 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 11 of 22 13 January 2014 at 2:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Well, I don't need to. I can see tons of context in the real input.
I think the main beauty of the srs is learning only what you need and as fast as possible. Drilling whole sentences doesn't fit the description. Why drill the whole sentence when you need just the one word and you work with context and whole sentences enough during the rest of learning activities. I've got a few phrases and sentences in my German deck. It works for the common phrases but it's slow and boring. Nearly as boring as intensive reading. Had I used sentences cards only (or mostly), I might totally drive myself away from anki and perhaps even from language learning for some time. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 12 of 22 13 January 2014 at 3:33am | IP Logged | ||
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Sounds like your sentence cards aren't enjoyable enough :/ I treat that like adding tweets to favourites. SRS is so awesome for things you *want* to see again. Yay idiomatics and Sprachgefühl.
As for the gap between passive and active... did you do both reading AND listening? I find that if I do just one of these, the words remain passive only, but doing both makes a huge difference. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4804 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 13 of 22 13 January 2014 at 3:37am | IP Logged | ||
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Yes. Listening helps more than reading but there are still many words that stay passive and their absence in the active vocab makes me feel like a blabbering idiot far too often :-(
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| Serpent Octoglot Senior Member Russian Federation serpent-849.livejour Joined 6392 days ago 9753 posts - 15779 votes 4 sounds Speaks: Russian*, English, FinnishC1, Latin, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese Studies: Danish, Romanian, Polish, Belarusian, Ukrainian, Croatian, Slovenian, Catalan, Czech, Galician, Dutch, Swedish | Message 14 of 22 13 January 2014 at 3:53am | IP Logged | ||
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Aww, don't feel like an idiot ;/
I mean, of course it's a legitimate strategy. It's just worth a try to have more input first, especially when you're a beginner in a language closely related to something you already speak. I guess we're talking about different levels of "easy" vocabulary. 1 person has voted this message useful | |||
| kujichagulia Senior Member Japan Joined 4642 days ago 1031 posts - 1571 votes Speaks: English* Studies: Japanese, Portuguese | Message 15 of 22 13 January 2014 at 10:19am | IP Logged | ||
It has been useful for me, but when I do Anki cards, I don't try to translate from L2 -> L1. I just try to understand the L2, and if I do, I pass the card. If I don't, I don't. No translation needed or wanted. Here is one of my Portuguese Anki cards: * * * * FRONT A imprensa está interessada na vida particular dele. BACK a imprensa - the press * * * * I knew all words besides "a imprensa" before making the card. When reviewing, if I understand what that sentence means, that is good enough for me. I'm not trying to translate it. I tried doing L1 -> L2 before, but for me what happens is that it becomes frustrating, especially the more I advance in a language. I think I had this kind of sentence in English on the front of one of my Japanese cards a long time ago: "The girl approached me after class and asked me how she could get better in English." There are so many ways to say that sentence in Japanese - you could use a number of different words and even different registers - and if you say it one way and the back of the card has it another way, then you think your way is wrong, when in fact what you produced could be correct as well. It was just too much for me to deal with. And I haven't even mentioned synonyms, etc. Anyway, I think L1 -> L2 only works when there is only one way to translate a sentence, or with set phrases, etc. At least, that is how it works for me. 2 persons have voted this message useful | |||
| Cavesa Triglot Senior Member Czech Republic Joined 4804 days ago 3277 posts - 6779 votes Speaks: Czech*, FrenchC2, EnglishC1 Studies: Spanish, German, Italian | Message 16 of 22 13 January 2014 at 11:27am | IP Logged | ||
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I don't feel like an idiot about the anki strategy but just every time I miss important words in active skills. I am, perhaps, a bit too hard on myself as I am used to expressing myself really freely in Czech and English so I am unhappy to be limited in any language. Especially in those where my comprehension is near perfect or progressing fast towards the same point.
So, that is why I use anki. Just simple practice (including speaking) doesn't solve the situation as well. In French, I can speak well but I still avoid a lot of words I don't avoid. Getting by without them for a hundred times won't make me recall them for the hundred and first attempt. Yes, L1 to L2 is somehow limited by the multiple options but that is quite easy to fix: 1.it isn't that much of an issue with individual words 2.you can always improve the front of the newer (or more difficult) card like "L1word (not easyL2word)" 3.If the nuances are big enough, you can be more precise on the front. 4.If the nuances are really tiny or none and the words are synonymes, you can have two solutions on the back. I have some cards like that and it is quite convenient, as long as I warn myself on the front to think of two translations. 2 persons have voted this message useful |
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