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A Rashi Decision: Learning Ladino

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iguanamon
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 Message 73 of 85
19 December 2014 at 3:28am | IP Logged 
Un kuento de Djoha
La rubrika de Gad Nassi – Riyir kon Djoha: “Djoha i su Kavayo” de eSefarad

Djoha teniya un kavayo. Kada ves ke saliya a los kampos, se arodeyava en riva de su kavayo. Una de estas vezes, despues de arodearse buen karar, le tomo un ambre grande.
Apersivyo un arvole de igo muy alto. Se aserko del arvole. Ma, achakes de su altor, no pudo alkansar a arankar los igos.
I, kualo es ke izo?
Se metyo en pyez en riva de su kavayo i empeso a arankar los igos. Ainda, kuando los estava arankando, un ombre ke estava pasando de ayi en riva de su azno, le disho:
“Peryites tu el meoyo? No se suve en pyez a un kavayo, porke el kavayo puede kaminar unos kuantos pasos i te puedes kayer en basho.”
Le respondyo Djoha:
“Mintirozo!”
Pasaron unos kuantos puntos i el kavayo kijo komer yerva. Kamino verso la yerva i Djoha se arezvalo i se kayo en basho.
Koryo Djoha detras del ombre kon el azno i le demando:
“Komo puedeser ke supites ke me iva kayerme?”
Le respondio el ombre:
“No es klaro? Si estas en pyez en riva del kavayo, el kavayo ve yerva i kere komerla, echa unos pasos i tu te kayes.”
Djoha le disho:
“Esto vyendo ke tu sos una persona muy savida! Por esto, no te desho tu yaka fin’a ke me dizes kuando me va murir.”
El ombre no supiendo de ke manera desbararse de Djoha, le respondio:
“Kuando te vas a sintir ke tus manos, kon tus pyezes i tu frente se estan entezando mas del karar, esto es siman de tu muerte!”
Pasaron unos kuantos mezes i el invyerno arivo.
De muevo salio Djoha a los kampos kon su kavayo.
En supito, sintyo ke estava muy yelado. Se toko los pyezes, las manos i su frente i se apresivio ke eran yelados. Pishin, penso ke ya se avia murido.
Abasho de su kavayo, se echo en riva de la tierra i se kedo ayi sin meneyarse.
En esto, pasaron dos personas de ayi. Se aserkaron de Djoha i lo saludaron. Kontinuaron a avlar a Djoha i todo en kedando espandido en basho sin meneyarse, Djoha no les respondio.
Las personas se konvinsieron ke Djoha se avia murido. Tomaron a su kavayo i empesaron a alesharsen del lugar.
Despues ke avian avansado de unos kuantos pasos, los yamo Djoha kon una boz fuerte, i les djuro:
“Si no era muerte, mataria a todos los dos de vozotros i tomaria mi kavayo atras!”

Mi traduksion al inglez:

Djoha and his horse

Djoha had a horse. Every time he went out to the fields, he would ride around on his horse. One of these times, after riding a good while, he became quite hungry. He noticed a very tall fig tree. He rode up to the fig tree. But, because of its height, he couldn't reach to pick the figs.
So, what did he do?
He stood up on top of his horse and started to pick the figs. While he was picking them, a man was passing by riding on top of his donkey and said to him:
Have you lost your mind? You don't stand up on a horse, because the horse can walk just a few steps and you'll fall to the ground.
Djoha responded:
"Liar!"
A little time passed and the horse wanted to eat some grass. It walked toward the grass and Djoha slipped and fell to the ground.
Djoha ran after the man on the donkey and asked him:
"How can it be that you knew I was going to fall?"
The man answered him:
"Isn't it obvious? If you are standing on a horse, and he sees grass, he'll want to eat it, he'll take a few steps and you'll fall."
"I can see you are a wise man. That's why you held back and didn't tell me when I'm going to die."
The man, not knowing in what way to free himself from Djoha, answered him:
"When you feel your hands, along with your feet and your forehead are frozen, this is the sign of your death."
A few months went by and winter arrived.
Once again, Djoha went out to the fields with his horse.
Suddenly, he felt that he was very cold. He touched his feet, his hands and his forehead and he noticed that they were ice cold. At once, he thought he had died.
He got off his horse. He threw himself on the ground and stayed there without moving at all.
At this time, two people passed by there. They approached Djoha and greeted him. They continued to speak to Djoha the whole time he was sprawled out on the ground motionless. Djoha didn't answer them.
The people were convinced that Djoha had died. They took his horse and began to go away from that place.
After they had moved forward a few steps, Djoha called out to them in a loud voice and he swore to them:
If I weren't dead, I'd kill both of you and take my horse back!"

Edited by iguanamon on 19 December 2014 at 9:14pm

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Luso
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 Message 74 of 85
19 December 2014 at 7:34am | IP Logged 
Iguanamon, I really like these stories, for two reasons:

1. In terms of language, it reminds me that there was a time when Portuguese and Spanish must have been really close, because I can read the texts and see an older version of both. Sometimes a word eludes me (like meoyo), but after a bit of searching, I arrived at "miolo", which is a popular word for "wit", apart from other uses.

2. It also reminds me that many stories didn't necessarily have happy or moral endings, and that they needn't be very elaborate. The former characteristic is also a feature of many tales of the Arabian Nights. I guess people knew instinctively that life wasn't necessarily fair (back then, unfair was the norm), and they just wanted to be entertained.
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Ogrim
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 Message 75 of 85
19 December 2014 at 9:56am | IP Logged 
Thanks iguanamon for these entertaining stories. It is interesting to see how Ladino has kept many features that you find in Medieval Spanish literature, such as El Cid. And yes, Spanish and Portuguese were definitely closer back then than they are today.

As regards the word "meoyo", it obviously corresponds to modern Spanish "meollo", which has the basic meaning of "bown marrow" but can also be used to indicate brain mass or figuratively "essence" of a thing, like in the expression "el meollo del asunto" (the crux of the matter).
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iguanamon
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 Message 76 of 85
19 December 2014 at 4:07pm | IP Logged 
Luso and Ogrim, I appreciate you both dropping by and sharing your comments, mersi muncho. Yes, Djudeo-espanyol has preserved a Spanish from a time when it was closer to Portuguese. If you heard it spoken, you would hear "djente" or "gente- (ESP)" pronounced more like Portuguese than Spanish and the letter "j" is a Portuguese "j" instead of a modern Spanish one.

Reading Djoha, I am very much reminded of the tales of 1001 Nights. I've been enjoying this secular reading of Ladino. It's a window into a time and culture through the language. The tales of Djoha, also remind me of the "Jack Tales" that I used to hear my grandparents tell in my youth. The Jack Tales' main character is the very same Jack, of beanstalk fame. He had many other lesser known adventures and stories. He wasn't always a trickster but also a bit of a dolt at times. Jack was part of US Southern Appalachian heritage brought to North America by the lowland Scots and Ulster Scots in the 17th and 18th centuries. Television, improved highways and national public education has pretty much ended the oral tradition of telling tales and thus the passing along of a centuries long cultural heritage.

Here's what Vikypedia Ladino has to say about Djoha:

Vikypedia Ladino wrote:
...Egziste en las istoryas de todo el Medio Oryente, Asia Sentrala i la Mar Mediterraneo un personaje yamado Djuha, Giufà, Djohá, Joha, Goha, J'ha, Ch’ha o lasi versiyon turkana Nasreddin Hodja, ma afilu todos son klaramente la mizma figura kon nuanses diferentes en toda la area del Mediterraneo, desde los tiempos de Harun al-Rashid ("Joha", paj. 143) al Rei Ferdinando de Napoli ("Giofà, il servo del re"). Se kree ke esta bazado en un personaje ledjendario Sufi, el kualo bivio durante el syeklo XIII, en Akşehir i dempues en Konya, basho el kontrol de los Seldjukidas. Ma al pasar el tyempo, se fue miksturando kon las kulturas ke entraron en kontakto kon el Emperio Ottomano i pasando a ser parte emportante de las konsejas i reflanes.

Nombres en otras kulturas:

Kurdistan: Mella Nasredîn
Turkiya: Nasrettin Hoca
Paras: ملا نصرالدین
Israel i komunitas djudias: ג'וחא
Payises Arabos: جحا, djuḥā, نصرالدين, naṣr ad-dīn, ke signifika "Viktoria de la Fé", transl.: Malai Mash-ur,
Albania, Kosovo i Masedonia: Nastradin Hoxha o sólu Nastradini
Azerbaidjan: Molla Nəsrəddin
Bosnia i Erzegovina: Nasruddin Hodža
Khina: 阿凡提, Āfántí
Italia: Giufà
Uzbekistan: Nasriddin Afandi o sólu Afandi
Kazadjistan: Қожанасыр, Khodhanasir
Turkestan Oryental: Näsirdin Äfänt

There's a more detailed background article Djoha, Personaje- Ponte en la area del Mediterraneo by Ladino writer Matlida Koen-Sarrano who has published books collecting the tales from the last of the living speakers of Djudeo-espanyol in Turkey, the Balkans, Italy, Israel and all over the world.

The commonality of the character across great swaths of the Mediterranean, the Near East and the Silk Road speaks to how much more these cultures have in common than to how they differ.

Edited by iguanamon on 20 December 2014 at 1:21pm

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iguanamon
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2237 posts - 6731 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

 
 Message 77 of 85
22 December 2014 at 2:37am | IP Logged 
One more Djoha story:

Misterio de Pesah
Riyir kon Djoha i los otros por Matilda Koen-Sarano

Djoha estuvo kumbidado en la noche del Seder por la famiya de la novia. Despues ke eskparon el Seder i ya estava kaje dodje de la noche, kijo Djoha irse a su kaza.
Ensupito, kuando avrio la puerta, vido ke estava abashando una luvia fuerte.
Disho Djoha:
- Komo me v’a ir yo agora a kaza? Me v’azer pipas!
Disho la madre de la novia:
- Addio, Djoha, kedate a durmir aki, para ke no te agas hazino!
- Bueno! disho Djoha, muy kontente.
Suvieron arriva la madre, la nona i la novia a atakanarle la kama. Metieron savanas blankas brodadas, un kavesal ermozo i una kolcha maraviyoza. Abasharon las tres abasho a la sala, para dizirle a Djoha ke la kama ya esta pronta.
Lo bushkaron, lo bushkaron… No sta! No sta en la sala, no sta en la kuzina ...no sta en dingun lugar.
Disheron:
- Ande se desparesio este Djoha?
En avlando ansina, oyeron una bateada en la puerta.
- Ken sera a esta ora? disheron.
Avrin la puerta i kualo veen? A Djoha entero mojados pipas.
Le disheron:
- Kualo es esto, Djoha? Ande estuvites?
Les disho Djoha:
- E, me fui a kaza a traer la pijama.

A Passover Mystery

Djoha was invited for the night of the Seder by his fiancée's family. After the Seder ended and it was now almost midnight, Djoha wanted to go back home.
At once, when he opened the door he saw that it was pouring rain.
Djoha said:
-How am I going to go home now? I'll be soaked.
The fiancée's mother said:
-For God's sake Djoha, stay and sleep here, so you don't make yourself ill.
-Fine, said Djoha happily.
The mother, grandmother and fiancée went upstairs to prepare the bed for him. They put on white bordered sheets, a beautiful pillowcase, and a fabulous blanket.
The three went downstairs to the living room to tell Djoha that the bed is now ready.
They looked and looked for him... He wasn't there. He wasn't in the living room, nor in the kitchen, he wasn't anywhere to be found.
They said:
-Where did Djoha disappear to?
As they were saying this, they heard a knocking on the door.
-Who will it be at this hour? they said.
They opened the door and who did they see? Djoha, soaking wet.
They said to him:
-What is this, Djoha? Where were you?
Djoha said to them:
-Umm, I went back home to get my pajamas.

In this story, there are few words to cause trouble for a Spanish-speaker. Perhaps "hazino" (ill) and atakanar (to prepare). Where Djudeo-espanyol gets interesting is in this sentence from an article on eSefarad by Edmond Cohen- Muestra Lingua- El Djudeo-Espanyol

Edmond Cohen wrote:
...Un alhad una balabaya kodja boy, bivda de un haham brusali, henoza en su fostan mavi, asentada sovre un minder a la köche de su salon, resive su musafir, un kasap un poko kazikchi, ama de buen kiyafet, ke entrando belledea pichin kuti de teneke , al lado del mangal, para la sedaka, i ke mete dos groshes.

¿Qué pasó?

Edmond Cohen wrote:
Un alhad. Un es un byervo espanyol. I alhad? No. Alhad, en espanyol, se dize domingo. Turko? Tampoko. Alhad, en turko, se dize pazar. Ebreo? Tampoko. Alhad, en ebreo, se dize yom rishon. I de ande mos sale este alhad? Del arabo...

Una balabaya. Una es espanyol. I balabaya? Turko? no. Ebreo? Mas o menos… el byervo ebreo, ke es al maskolino, es baal abait, amo de la kaza. Los djudeo-espanyoles, de baal abait, izyeron balabay, i al feminino balabaya, byervo ke ni es espanyol, ni es ebreo: es djudeo-espanyol, i solo djudeoespanyol.

Kodja boy: dos byervos turkos, ke kyeren dizir muy alta.
Bivda: byervo espanyol, salvo ke en Espanya se eskrive i se pronunsya viuda.
De un: byervos espanyoles. Haham: byervo ebreo. Brusali/ byervo turko, salvo ke los turkos dizen Bursa i bursali.
Henoza: byervo ke empesa en ebreo: hen es la grasya en ebreo, i ke se eskapa por un sufikso espanyol: henoza en vez de grasyoza. De muevo mos topamos en frente de un byervo ke parese espanyol, ama ke no es, sin ser ebreo por lo tanto: es un byervo djudeo-espanyol, i solo djudeo espanyol.
En su: dos byervos espanyoles. Fostan mavi: dos byervos turkos.

Por siguro, un espanyol ke melda o oye: un alhad una balabaya kodja boy, bivda de un haham brusali, henoza en su fostan mavi, no va entender nada, sino, puede ser, ke se esta avlando de una viuda, si entyende ke bivda es viuda. Ama un turko? Ni el tampoko. No puede nada entender kon solo los byervos kodja boy i fostan mavi. Ke aze este fostan mavi kodja boy? I un israelyano? El solo byervo ke va entender es haham.

Mi vava, eya, uvyera todo entendido, salvo puede ser henoza, ke es mas un byervo de Selanik ke de Estambol, ande se diriya grasyoza. Lo ke kije amostrar, es ke el fakto ke el djudeo-espanyol tyene byervos de munchas orijenes no aze de el un jargon. Es una lingua espesifika ke es a la vez djudiya i espanyola. Syerto ke, afillu todos los byervos turkos ke pueden entrar, su sintaksis, su gramatika kedan espanyolas, lo ke aze la grande diferensya entre el djudeo-espanyol i el ladino, ande la sintaksis, la gramatika, son ebreas afillu si todos los byervos son espanyoles. De toda manera, los djudyos se toparon ovligados, kuando, una vez en Turkiya, les ayegaron a poko a poko kozas ke no egzistiyan en 1492, de bushkar alrededor de eyos un byervo para estas kozas, komo piron o chadir.

Munchas vezes, tomaron un byervo turko, i lo ispanyolizaron. Tomaron del turko chanak i lo izyeron una chanaka. I los verbos tambyen fueron tomados del turko, i kullanmak se izo kulanear.

Lo kuryozo, asigun mi, no es ke ayga byervos turkos en muestra lingua, lo kuryozo es ke despues de 500 anyos en medyo de los turkos, ay tan pokos…

I a mi me vyene otra koza puede ser mas kuryoza: es ke los djudyos venidos de Espanya, ke oyeron avlar turko delantre de eyos durante 500 anyos, lo ke aze mas o menos 17 jeneransyos, no se ambezaron a pronunsyar komo kale los byervos tomados de los turkos.

Para yamar el karvon, los djudyos estambollis no diziyan karvon, salvo en la ekspresyon preto karvon. Sino lo diziyan en lo ke pensavan ser turko: kömür. Salvo ke en 500 anyos no se ambezaron a pronunsyar ni ö ni ü…I disheron kimur en vez de kömür durante 500 anyos! I kualke sea el byervo turko, syempre se topa bozdeado. Mutfak es pronunsyado mupak. Mushluk es pronunsyado bushluk. Tüfek es pronunsyado tufenk, ihlamur es pronunsyado flamur, djins es pronunsyado djiz, balik es pronunsyado baluk, defter es pronunsyado tefter, ets ets. Source

This keeps things interesting!

Edited by iguanamon on 22 December 2014 at 12:13pm

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iguanamon
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Virgin Islands
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2237 posts - 6731 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

 
 Message 78 of 85
22 December 2014 at 1:05pm | IP Logged 
In my last post was this linguistically interesting sentence:

Edmond Cohen wrote:
...Un alhad una balabaya kodja boy, bivda de un haham brusali, henoza en su fostan mavi, asentada sovre un minder a la köche de su salon, resive su musafir, un kasap un poko kazikchi, ama de buen kiyafet, ke entrando belledea pichin kuti de teneke, al lado del mangal, para la sedaka, i ke mete dos groshes.


Mi traduksion al inglez:

One Sunday a very tall housewife, widow of a rabbi (brusali?), graceful in her blue dress, seated on a cushion on the living room sofa, receives her guest, a butcher who was a little skinny, but well dressed, who on entering (belledea pichin?) collection box, on the side of the (mangal?), for charity, and put in two coins.

Of course, this is an artificial sentence constructed by Mr. Cohen in order to illustrate just how inscrutable djudeo-espanyol can be at times. None of my dictionaries have these words in parentheses. I can either hope that I run into them again somewhere, ask on the ladinokomunita forum or forget about them and continue to march. That's what I like about learning djudeo-espanyol. Not knowing these words is irksome but not crucial. If they are important, I will run into them again. If I do, I'll come back to fill in the blanks.



Edited by iguanamon on 22 December 2014 at 1:51pm

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Luso
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 Message 79 of 85
22 December 2014 at 2:16pm | IP Logged 
Interesting, as always.

The first texts are little more than Spanish with an old accent (the same we find in the North of Portugal). "Hazino" is probably Arabic حزين. It means "sad" and "sorry", among other things.

The other texts are a bit more cryptic, but perhaps also more interesting: I see the tendency to replace the "v" by a "b" in spoken language, again common in the North of Portugal. Also the less common reverse "b" by "v".

Alhad is clearly Arabic for Sunday, الأحد.

In a previous post, I see a reference to Nasreddine, the simpleton from Arabic folktales. Sometimes it ends well for him, often it doesn't.

It will be nice to check for some Turkish words in the future, as I'm going to dabble a bit in the language.
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iguanamon
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Virgin Islands
Speaks: Ladino
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2237 posts - 6731 votes 
Speaks: English*, Spanish, Portuguese, Haitian Creole, Creole (French)

 
 Message 80 of 85
22 December 2014 at 9:49pm | IP Logged 
Thanks, Luso,

"Byervo" is djudeo-espanyol for "word". I am curious about its derivation. My guess is that it must be a corruption of "verbo". It could be something else entirely, though. My textbook doesn't elaborate on this. It does say that "hazino" is a "Spanish Arabism", confirming your surmise.

The reason why Djudeo-espanyol speakers use "alhad" in place of "domingo" is the same reason why they say "el Dio" instead of "Diós". Since Judaism is about the "one God", God cannot be plural. "Domingo" comes form the Latin "Dominicus"- "from the Lord". Since Sunday is the Christian holy day of rest for the week, and "Shabat" is the Jewish sabbath, how can there be two holy days in a week? Obviously, for djudeo-espanyol speakers, there's only one holy day of rest and their day must take preference- hence the name change. Use of "alhad" and "Dio" goes back to before the expulsion.

Other tendencies in djudeo-espanyol are to change "rd" for "dr" in words like "tadre" for "tarde" and "vedra" for "verdad" and to change the vowel "u" for "v" in "bivda" for "viuda" and "sivdad" for "ciudad".

I'll be following your Turkish language team. I would've joined myself, but if I'm going to learn Turkish, I wouldn't want to break off in March for Azeri, and then the next one a few months later, but that's just me. It does sound like fun, though. This year is going to be a year of consolidation and improvement of what I already have on my plate, including Portuguese. I am considering starting a consolidated language log in the New Year.

I am also looking forward to getting in some more reading over the Christmas season. Alisya en el pais de maraviyas awaits.


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